BREAKING NEWS (Pack fire more coaches)

[wichmae]

Almost every defensive coach except Moss fired.

[wichmae]

They are: Defensive Coordinator Bob Sanders; defensive ends coach Carl Hairston; defensive tackles coach Robert Nunn; secondary coach Kurt Schottenheimer; defensive nickel package/cornerbacks coach Lionel Washington; and strength and conditioning coach Rock Gullickson.

[wichmae]

Really sounds like Moss will get the job now.

[ReasonablySober]

It's hard to say how Moss would do here given we have nothing to go on. I would rather we bring in someone from outside the organization. Maybe we get lucky and Moss receives the St. Louis job.

[aaprigs311]

Kurt Schottenheimer finally gone! God, that's been a long time coming.

[aaprigs311]

I would also prefer not to hire from within, but Moss wouldn't be the worst. He runs a more blitz happy version of the 4-3. It's not like he's identical to Sanders.

[Wade-A-Holic]

Kurt Schottenheimer finally gone! God, that's been a long time coming.

I've gladly ripped on Schottenheimer in the past as well, but his unit easily performed better than any other unit on the defense this past season.

I would also prefer not to hire from within, but Moss wouldn't be the worst. He runs a more blitz happy version of the 4-3. It's not like he's identical to Sanders.

I agree. Moss is just an unknown. He wouldn't excite me or disappoint me. He's a wait-and-see hire if he gets the job. I just think that to hire somebody like Nolan would be an overreaction to a disappointing season. You would have to scrap so much of what we actually do have going for us if we went that route. I like our system. We just need a coordinator who can call a better game and adjust when the personnel isn't there. When it became apparent that our front four could not be relied upon to generate pressure, as it had been able to last season, Sanders had no answer for it. There were no disguises, no variations. His game plan was too vanilla. This defense just needs more depth at defensive tackle so those guys don't get worn down and another pass rusher on the outside (in addition to a healthy Cullen Jenkins) and it will be fine.

[ReasonablySober]

I'd been in favor of a 3-4 for years, but that was primarily before the 2006 season rolled around and the Packers took AJ Hawk at #5 and saw Kampman go out there and get to the QB 15.5 times. If Nolan is brought in and a scheme shift is made to the 3-4 or some kind of hybrid, you're talking about completely overhauling our personnel and moving our one legit pass rusher to a position in which he's neutralized. Sure, you could go out there and draft Brown and Selvie in rounds one and two, but you still don't have a nose tackle, and the backers need to learn how to cover in a zone scheme.

Now, maybe that's the best idea for the future. We would be the only team in this division to currently run a 3-4. It's much easier finding pass rushers at OLB than it is at DE. This year's defensive player of the year was undrafted. It's a bit tougher to find a 17 sack guy that has to play with his hand in the dirt.

But next season would be a struggle if the defense is completely revamped.

[MickeyDavis]

Interesting on the strength coach. Chmura was on 540 a couple of weeks ago talking about how bad this guy was and that he had the Packers doing the wrong kind of weight training. He questioned why this guy was hired.

[MickeyDavis]

So last year our defense was very good and we finished 13-3. This year our defense was very bad and we finished 6-10.

Were our defensive coaches good last year and sucked this year? Or did the loss of Jenkins/Barnett/Bigby plus HarrellBust contribute to the defensive decline? We were a good defense in 2007 despite the terrible coaches?

[Ayt]

So last year our defense was very good and we finished 13-3. This year our defense was very bad and we finished 6-10.

Were our defensive coaches good last year and sucked this year? Or did the loss of Jenkins/Barnett/Bigby plus HarrellBust contribute to the defensive decline? We were a good defense in 2007 despite the terrible coaches?

I'd say despite the scheme. I think the Bates system has seen its last days in the NFL.

[Wade-A-Holic]

So last year our defense was very good and we finished 13-3. This year our defense was very bad and we finished 6-10.

Were our defensive coaches good last year and sucked this year? Or did the loss of Jenkins/Barnett/Bigby plus HarrellBust contribute to the defensive decline? We were a good defense in 2007 despite the terrible coaches?

Personally, I think it was a combination of two things.

1. The defensive line regressed and was thin (Williams trade, Jenkins injury, Jolly was worse, KGB was terrible)

2. The coaching definitely wasn't as good as when Bates was around. He brought an intensity to that defense that Sanders didn't. Also, Sanders wasn't able to adjust to the first problem.

Sanders is a mediocre coordinator when the personnel is all there for him, but obviously was exposed in 08 as unable to deal with ambiguity.

[Ill-yasova]

So last year our defense was very good and we finished 13-3. This year our defense was very bad and we finished 6-10.

Were our defensive coaches good last year and sucked this year? Or did the loss of Jenkins/Barnett/Bigby plus HarrellBust contribute to the defensive decline? We were a good defense in 2007 despite the terrible coaches?

You have to look at Sanders' stint as DC as a whole. He had one good season with this defense, and even during the course of that season the Pack's inability to rush the passer became a problem as the season wore on. In situations like that a good DC would adjust his scheme to get the job done, Sanders was incapable.

[JHSFIVE]

please someone tell me what is so great about winston moss..... People talk about moss and his scheme ideas. if he was so nice why was he's an assistant on a inconsistant D that everyone except him got canned. Perhaps I just know nothing about this guy, so someone please fill me in.

[Ayt]

please someone tell me what is so great about winston moss..... People talk about moss and his scheme ideas. if he was so nice why was he's an assistant on a inconsistant D that everyone except him got canned. Perhaps I just know nothing about this guy, so someone please fill me in.

I don't see much talk of that because we have no idea what type of scheme he'd run.

In terms of X's and O's, who knows if he'd be a good coordinator. The main positives I see in Moss (at least from the interviews I've seen), is that he has a great demeanor and sounds like a natural leader. I'm guessing he is a highly respected guy just because of how he carries himself. Whether that means he'd be a good coach in terms of scheme, we'll probably find out at some point either here or elsewhere.

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

I'ld admit I have no idea what responsibilities he had as lb coach. But the lb's really underperformed this year, that may have to do with the dc's schemes but I worry as an average fan

[Ryan5UW]

Just because Moss wasn't fired, doesn't mean he's the likely guy to take over as DC here. It's kind of crappy to fire a guy while he's interviewing for a HC position, so they might wait til after that to can him. Or.... they could be interested in him as DC or hoping to keep him around as LB coach (which I doubt will happen, but you never know).

[El Duderino]

So last year our defense was very good and we finished 13-3. This year our defense was very bad and we finished 6-10.

Were our defensive coaches good last year and sucked this year? Or did the loss of Jenkins/Barnett/Bigby plus HarrellBust contribute to the defensive decline? We were a good defense in 2007 despite the terrible coaches?

I'd say despite the scheme. I think the Bates system has seen its last days in the NFL.

Maybe so in the exact form, but i'm sure there will be other coordinators who end up using some form of a 4-3 two gap scheme with good amount of man coverage in the secondary. The one thing that really separated the Packers defense from most others in the NFL was just how often we played man press coverage in the secondary in a league where most teams play majority zone coverages. The 4-3 Tampa 2 scheme that so many teams run generally doesn't use much blitzing either, but they play zone in the back and the defensive line is one gap vs the two gap under Bates/Sanders.

If my memory is correct, Bates learned the scheme under Dave Wannstedt who coordinated those top notch defenses during the Cowboys rise under Jimmy Johnson. The thing i can't remember is if those Cowboys teams played a two gap or one gap system on the line because i seem to recall them generally having smaller, but quicker defensive tackles. The scheme has proven it can be successful, but it's so reliant on having good pass rushers on the front four and good man coverage corners, very in demand/pricey positions that can be hard at times to keep filled or find in the draft.

[xTitan]

The Denver Broncos employed the same defense the Packers did this past year and it worked wond.....errrr,nevermind.

I actually believe with all the assistants being gassed that is looks like Moss WON'T be getting the D-Coordinator position.

[humanrefutation]

Lionel Washington was pretty well liked by the players, so that might irk a few people. But Moss/whomever they hire probably would've wanted a whole new staff of their choice, so it was bound to happen.