So long, Andy.

[VinnyTheMick]

Pettitte rejects Yankees offer

"A reunion seemed inevitable at the start of the off-season, but now it is uncertain. Pettitte has rejected the Yankees’ one-year, $10 million offer, according to a person with knowledge of the negotiations, and there is no standing offer for now."

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/06/sport ... ref=sports

[nykgeneralmanager]

I am all for giving the 5th spot to a combination of Hughes/Aceves/Kennedy depending on who earns in more. However, we're going to regret not having the depth in starting pitcher, we have 3 injury concerns in the rotation as it stands right now and that's without filling in the 5th spot yet.

[HCYanks]

Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh.

This is exactly why I wanted to go after Adam Dunn instead of Teix. Pat Burrell just took 2/16 from the Rays. Dunn might've been had for 3/36, judging from how the market's going. That would've left space open to bring back Andy for a year without upping the payroll, and then him, Damon, and Matsui would've been gone after, leaving a lot of breathing room. I don't think the difference between Dunn and Teix is bigger than getting 200 innings out of a guy like Pettitte when there's so many question marks in the rotation

[Pharmcat]

i dont see how this is yanks fault...they offered him 10 mill, when people said he is a 8 mill per yr pitcher, and the yanks stood by him during his HGH scandal...did andy forget the numbers he put up last year?

and tex signing was awesome imo, we lose damon and matsui at the end of this coming yr, and the biggest bat available next yr is holliday, so i like the yanks being proactive and gettin tex now

[HCYanks]

I guess going forward it wouldn't hurt to give John Smoltz a phone call and try to sell him on a "come here and go for another ring" argument. The Giants got Randy Johnson for peanuts so Smoltz might be had for cheap. I think it's worth the risk of getting him off of shoulder surgery. When he did pitch last year, he was still excellent.

[Rich Rane]

I read this a couple days ago. Post says we're going after Oliver Perez.

[-steez-]

I read this a couple days ago. Post says we're going after Oliver Perez.

I wouldn't be opposed to it if it we get his 2007 numbers from him [79 walks/130+ K's/an ERA of 3.56]... He's extremely inconsistent but his numbers ARE league average and that's pretty much all you can ask of a 5th starter. Not to mention he always manages to pitch tremendous in big games [see: game 7 of the 06 LCS, last years finale which he pitched a great game. all his subway series starts ] and MAYBE being in the AL East where it seems like every game is gonna be a playoff game it'll help him out. But at the same time, the thought of him pitching in the AL East for us no less scares me if he puts up numbers like he did last season.

Yeah I know I contradicted myself but the guy is such a mystery. With Hughes on an innings cap and Aceves being uncertain [the guy started near the end of the season. I'm not getting Ian Kennedy'd this time], I wouldn't mind the Yankees taking a shot at Ollie.

To fulfill the quota of sticking to the topic, it sucks Andy declined... A lot. Even if his overall #'s stunk during the 2nd half of last season guys who pitch 200 innings don't grow on trees, and he'd be perfect as the 5th starter. Ah well, hopefully the Yanks get a DECENT league average type of guy either out of ST/trade/free agency.

[jeff1624]

I don't want Oliver perez, I want hughes to get the 5th spot. There's a reason the guy was ranked a top 5 prospect the last few years. Give the kid a friggin chance he's only 22.

[Knicksfan20]

I don't want Oliver perez, I want hughes to get the 5th spot. There's a reason the guy was ranked a top 5 prospect the last few years. Give the kid a friggin chance he's only 22.

Agreed

+1000

[HCYanks]

It's probably best to let Hughes sit in a low-pressure situation in AAA for a while and let him try to get healthy and back to form. Hopefully the FO hasn't decided to abandon the concept of innings limits for the youngsters, in which case Joba will have to be shut down for part of the season. Plus, let's not pretend Burnett is safe for another 200-220 innings. With that in mind, Phil will get a shot with the big league team again this year either way.

Perez might be able to command a decent contract based off his high K-rate, talent, and relative youth, so i'm not so hot on him. The great thing about getting a guy like Pettitte or Smoltz is that after a one-year deal they could be cut loose, at which point Hughes could *hopefully* take the rotation spot.

[Pharmcat]

is andy hurting for $$$? is there something i missed?

[HCYanks]

Urgh. The Red Sox are apparently about to sign Smoltz. He may not be ready for a month or two into the season apparently, but it's only 5.5 million base plus incentives. This is the type of stuff that may lose us the division yet again. Epstein quietly scoops up a potential steal while Cashman spends the offseason making every uncreative move possible.

[nykgeneralmanager]

Urgh. The Red Sox are apparently about to sign Smoltz. He may not be ready for a month or two into the season apparently, but it's only 5.5 million base plus incentives. This is the type of stuff that may lose us the division yet again. Epstein quietly scoops up a potential steal while Cashman spends the offseason making every uncreative move possible.

Our only two starters going into the off-season were Wang and Joba, two guys that have seen time on the DL in their careers, not to mention that Joba likely will be on some sort of innings cap this season. You fix that weakness by getting the best possible talent, such as Sabathia and Burnett. Would you have preferred to pass on Burnett for a less talented, older, not ready to start the season Smoltz? Lets not forget that Teixeira was Boston's #1 target for the off-season and we beat them out for him. Had they signed him, they wouldn't have the money left over for guys like Smoltz. So what was so much more creative about their plan? This isn't a creativity contest, its a contest for adding the best talent to your roster. Smoltz threw 28 innings last season and will be 42 years old by the time he pitches in 2009, what is so creative about that signing? I know you preferred Adam Dunn to Teixeira, and now perhaps Smoltz to somebody like Burnett, but those would be two terrible baseball decisions. Sure, if we are worried about money they would make more fiscal sense, but that is obviously not the case. We substantially improved our roster this off-season, Boston cannot say the same. If you want to give them bonus points for being more "creative" because they signed an injured 42 year old, then I guess that is okay.

We don't have to make these types of scoops because of our pitching depth. We can get spot starts from a number of guys such as Aceves, Kennedy, Hughes, Coke, etc. All of whom could be just as effective as Smoltz this upcoming season.

[VinnyTheMick]

Urgh. The Red Sox are apparently about to sign Smoltz. He may not be ready for a month or two into the season apparently, but it's only 5.5 million base plus incentives. This is the type of stuff that may lose us the division yet again. Epstein quietly scoops up a potential steal while Cashman spends the offseason making every uncreative move possible.

Um, no.

[HCYanks]

I'm missing the part where Burnett is more talented than Smoltz. In pure stuff, maybe. Smoltz's production from 05-07 was outstanding. Even the limited time he had while battling the shoulder problem last year was still very good. Why can't the team than just sunk 40 million on Carl Pavano without blinking gamble a small fraction of that for a shot at another ace? I'm not even talking about him in place of Burnett, i'm saying the team is still in a position where it could use a extra rotation depth (why the hell else would they still be courting Pettitte at this point?).

The market is seriously undervaluing older players who can still perform over the short term. Billy Beane figured this out, and the A's are going to be competing for the division next season as a result. No reason why the Yankees can't get in on it. They do have a budget, it's just bigger than everyone else's.

[Pharmcat]

heres the way i look at it, the braves and red sox have a very good FO group...they targeted AJ and Tex...2 guys we got in the end, the fact that those 2 teams valued these players so much is enough for me to be happy with the signing

the diff between AJ and SMoltz is AJ has shown he can pitch in the AL east


plus the fact the braves didnt get smoltz back makes me think his shoulder mri raises eyebrows

[nykgeneralmanager]

I'm missing the part where Burnett is more talented than Smoltz. In pure stuff, maybe. Smoltz's production from 05-07 was outstanding. Even the limited time he had while battling the shoulder problem last year was still very good. Why can't the team than just sunk 40 million on Carl Pavano without blinking gamble a small fraction of that for a shot at another ace? I'm not even talking about him in place of Burnett, i'm saying the team is still in a position where it could use a extra rotation depth (why the hell else would they still be courting Pettitte at this point?).

The market is seriously undervaluing older players who can still perform over the short term. Billy Beane figured this out, and the A's are going to be competing for the division next season as a result. No reason why the Yankees can't get in on it. They do have a budget, it's just bigger than everyone else's.

Come on, do you really need to be convinced that the AL leader in strikeouts who has dominated the Yankees and Red Sox over his career is better than a 42 year old who just had surgery and has spent his entire career in the NL? Smoltz is not an ace at this point in his career.

I don't understand why we have to sign every single player on the market. Smoltz is not going to be putting any team over the top, whereas somebody like Burnett might. I just don't see why it is a big deal that the Yankees didn't make every attempt to sign a 42 year old who just pitched 28 innings and won't even be ready to start the season, you are just really overreacting over nothing IMO.

[HCYanks]

I don't know how you can say if Smoltz is still definitively a top-level starter or not. You're taking a risk up front that things don't work out due to either the surgery or age. In return, you get to sign him to a cheap one-year contract. And you get the potential of seeing him return to 05-07 form. Keep in mind that this shoulder problem of his started in 2007 and was about pain rather than performance--he still did quite well in the meantime. Maybe it messes with his mechanics, but who knows for sure. Hence the gamble aspects. With Burnett, on the other hand, you get a younger guy who's more likely to be effective at a top level immediately but who also comes with a way higher price tag. Let's not pretend there's no risk here, either. Burnett only got to 200 innings in 2 of the last 6 seasons. Not quite a Pavano redux situation, but he's going to spend some significant time on the DL during his deal.

I think we're kind of at an impasse here. You think the Yankees can keep signing the very best talent on the FA market without hurting themselves with these questionable contracts. I don't think that's true, and that's why i'd like to see Cashman make some more under the radar value signings like Smoltz to fill team needs.

[VinnyTheMick]

I don't know how you can say if Smoltz is still definitively a top-level starter or not.

I don't know how you could call him an ace. I don't know how you can assume this is the signing that will put Boston over the top. Bartolo Colon says hi.

[HCYanks]

I'm calling Smoltz a gamble contract because his payoff is through the roof but his age and recent surgery are cause for concern. Comparing him with Bartolo Colon, who was throwing his fastball in the mid-low 80s when the Red Sox signed him, is stupid.