Did the Lakers shatter the Celtics swag?

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Re: Did the Lakers shatter the Celtics swag? 

Post#181 » by Bgil » Wed Jan 7, 2009 3:22 pm

Individually, yes, but team-wise Fisher is the best team defender on LA. He's constanty drawing charges, getting his hand in on penetration from the wings to disrupt drives, stripping/harrassing post players when they make their moves etc. Don't tell me -- I watch the games.



I should have been more clear when I saw "watch games". I meant, "Watch and understand games". Having it on in the background as you polish your retro Jordan's doesn't count. You're mistaking hustle and grittness for good defense. Even then, Ariza VERY CLEARLY does everything you claim Fisher does about 10x better (except possibly draw charges... which Fish hasn't done all that well this year anyway).

I'd love to see you find someone to back up your theory about Fisher being the best team defender on the Lakers though. That theory is so ridiculous that it only serves to show how little you know about basketball.

Kobe's help/team defense has always been the weakest part of his defensive game. Most non-homers know this.


Weakest part of his game? Yes. But that's like saying Mike Tyson's weakest punch is his left jab. He's still relatively good at it, hence the Doc Rivers comment and the 9 All Defensive team selections. He's also locked down several elite teams with his help/team D... Tony Parker and the Spurs come to mind as does KG and the Wolves. KG even commented on how crazy it was to have a first team all D guy running around not guarding anyone and causing havoc.


This is sophistry. Whether Fisher would or would not be able to be as good a "roamer" in that situation as Kob is irrelevant, because the fact remains that he could still easily do, and it would at least have some effect (since there's no negatives, as Rondo can't shoot); but he doesn't do it for some reason. Neither do Farmar or Sasha when they happen to guard Rondo. It's not hard to play 15 feet off a guy and roam around. And it's not because Fisher can't recover to contest shots either, since Kobe is seldom even within 10 feet of Rondo when he does decide to shoot it.


Go watch the games again. There's more to it than just sagging and playing zone. The decisions on who to shade and trap on defense are crucial and are something none of those other guys do well. The ability to actually disrupt and challenge KG without fouling is something that is completely foreign to Fisher (too short), Farmar (too short) and Sasha (too stupid).
most importantly though, Kobe actually switches out on KG and PP many times. None of the players you mentioned can even dream of doing that and not getting repeatedly dunked on.

There's a thread on the Celtics board noting something similar... the Knicks used Jefferes (a large defensively aware SF) to play the Kobe role. Using a PG against KG is an exercise in futlity.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=868347
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLPDOiFY39Y

“That’s now the blueprint on how to beat us, so we just have to counter that,” Allen said. “Put a big guy on (Rondo) and just force him to shoot.”



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Re: Did the Lakers shatter the Celtics swag? 

Post#182 » by witnessmoboobie » Wed Jan 7, 2009 4:10 pm

I didn't think this was true until the last two games. Now they play two tough games vs the Rockets and the Cavs. Luckily for Boston Z is sidelined, but I still think this will be a very tough game because it is in Cleveland.
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Re: Did the Lakers shatter the Celtics swag? 

Post#183 » by ToffKobe » Wed Jan 7, 2009 4:33 pm

Yey @ the Celtics becoming the Sucktics. :)

Go Lakers Go!
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Re: Did the Lakers shatter the Celtics swag? 

Post#184 » by ropjhk » Wed Jan 7, 2009 5:48 pm

Playing against some top level competition might snap the Celts out of their funk, or drive them deeper into it.
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Re: Did the Lakers shatter the Celtics swag? 

Post#185 » by magicfan4life05 » Wed Jan 7, 2009 5:50 pm

Adam (St. Louis, MO): Dr Thorpedo, I was wondering, what's your take on the notion of Celtics, namely KG, being a "bully" out there. It's obviously part of the game - intimidation and what not - but do you think maybe there is a line that is crossed where it reaches disrespect and arrogance?

SportsNation David Thorpe: (12:20 PM ET ) The line is crossed when his actions serve as motivators for the other guys. And I'm here to tell you that players in this league hate Boston right now more so than any other team.



^^^

I think that has a HUGE PART to do with it. I think teams are just trying more and playing harder to beat them.


We'll see what happens.
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Re: Did the Lakers shatter the Celtics swag? 

Post#186 » by Triple M » Wed Jan 7, 2009 6:33 pm

ToffBosh wrote:Yey @ the Celtics becoming the Sucktics. :)

Go Lakers Go!


The Raps suck so you bandwagon for LA so sad
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Re: Did the Lakers shatter the Celtics swag? 

Post#187 » by Kefa461 » Wed Jan 7, 2009 8:44 pm

CelticNation has big shoulders...bring them on. 8-)
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Re: Did the Lakers shatter the Celtics swag? 

Post#188 » by G35 » Wed Jan 7, 2009 9:00 pm

magicfan4life05 wrote:
Adam (St. Louis, MO): Dr Thorpedo, I was wondering, what's your take on the notion of Celtics, namely KG, being a "bully" out there. It's obviously part of the game - intimidation and what not - but do you think maybe there is a line that is crossed where it reaches disrespect and arrogance?

SportsNation David Thorpe: (12:20 PM ET ) The line is crossed when his actions serve as motivators for the other guys. And I'm here to tell you that players in this league hate Boston right now more so than any other team.



^^^

I think that has a HUGE PART to do with it. I think teams are just trying more and playing harder to beat them.


We'll see what happens.



That's exactly what I keep saying about talking trash. Sometimes it's better to beat someone and shake their hand than beat someone and talk trash.

They are going to come back harder the next time. Boston and KG in particular aren't stepping their game up to overcome teams extra motivation.....
I'm so tired of the typical......
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Re: Did the Lakers shatter the Celtics swag? 

Post#189 » by NetsForce » Wed Jan 7, 2009 9:14 pm

How can KG step his game up any more? He's the most intense player in the history of the NBA! NOBODY has ever matched his intensity!!!
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Re: Did the Lakers shatter the Celtics swag? 

Post#190 » by Neel » Wed Jan 7, 2009 9:15 pm

NetsForce wrote:How can KG step his game up any more? He's the most intense player in the history of the NBA! NOBODY has ever matched his intensity!!!


KG PLAYS IN MAX GEAR ALL THE TIME!!!!!!
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Re: Did the Lakers shatter the Celtics swag? 

Post#191 » by jirojan » Wed Jan 7, 2009 9:24 pm

NetsForce wrote:How can KG step his game up any more? He's the most intense player in the history of the NBA! NOBODY has ever matched his intensity!!!



i once saw KG bend the rim by banging on it with his head

NOW THATS INTENSE!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Did the Lakers shatter the Celtics swag? 

Post#192 » by RutgersBJJ » Wed Jan 7, 2009 10:07 pm

I don't think Boston has any lefty southpaws so I am unsure if Marbury would really want to go there.
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Re: Did the Lakers shatter the Celtics swag? 

Post#193 » by Don Draper » Thu Jan 8, 2009 5:27 am

NetsForce wrote:You're missing the point I'm not saying the Celtics suck for losing 2 games, I'm just saying that it seems like the Celtics confidence has been temporarily shattered...


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Re: Did the Lakers shatter the Celtics swag? 

Post#194 » by G35 » Thu Jan 8, 2009 5:43 am

Travis Outlaw, DJ Augustin, Von Wafer, and Wilson Chandler defecated all over the Celtics swag.

What I want to know is what happened to Washington? How come they couldn't be the C's.....
I'm so tired of the typical......
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Re: Did the Lakers shatter the Celtics swag? 

Post#195 » by SpeedyG » Thu Jan 8, 2009 5:48 am

G35 wrote:Travis Outlaw, DJ Augustin, Von Wafer, and Wilson Chandler defecated all over the Celtics swag.

What I want to know is what happened to Washington? How come they couldn't be the C's.....


Washington's too busy hating on the Cavs to hate on the Celtics.
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Re: Did the Lakers shatter the Celtics swag? 

Post#196 » by RapsBulls4evr » Thu Jan 8, 2009 5:48 am

ToffBosh wrote:Yey @ the Celtics becoming the Sucktics. :)

Go Lakers Go!
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Re: Did the Lakers shatter the Celtics swag? 

Post#197 » by Hye4Life » Thu Jan 8, 2009 6:37 am

Garnett during Post Game interviews:

"we just got to get our swagger back." Haha, whats that you say Celtics' fans?
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Re: Did the Lakers shatter the Celtics swag? 

Post#198 » by dockingsched » Thu Jan 8, 2009 7:37 am

Pierce during post game interviews:

"we lost our swagger the last 10/12 days"
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Re: Did the Lakers shatter the Celtics swag? 

Post#199 » by Rasheeed!!! » Thu Jan 8, 2009 7:55 am

this has become way too comical, but i love it!
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Re: Did the Lakers shatter the Celtics swag? 

Post#200 » by jirojan » Thu Jan 8, 2009 7:57 am

allen post game interview:

"swagger be lost, real gm called it"

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