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Offseason Goals

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Offseason Goals 

Post#1 » by ohara » Sun Jan 11, 2009 12:38 pm

1. I'm sorry Jake. Your time here as a starter has to come to an end. Despite a 12-4 regular season record, your numbers were 15 TD's and 12 Int.'s. Those are not the numbers of an NFL starting QB. With the Playoff egg you oaid last night of 1 TD and 5 Int's, your numbers for the year are a dismal 16 TD's and 17 Int's. Those do not qualify for a starting QB in the NFL.

What do the Panthers do? Possible options:
a. They could see about getting Derek Anderson from Cleveland. They are going with Brady Quinn, so we may be able to swap Jake and a 3rd for Derek. Jake gives them a back up in case Quinn gets hurt, and they get a 3rd rounder. Jake is 34 now, so his years are limited. Derek just completed his 4th yr, so he has many years to go.
b. Carolina drafts a QB with their 2nd round pick the 2009 draft. Bad call, as that sets us back at least 2-3 years of grooming him since there will not be any star QB's available in the late 2nd.
c. Break the bank and offer New England a high pick for Cassell. That will take a 1st, and we dont have one in 2009 and I dont know that they will take a 2010 1st. Also, they may want to hold onto Cassell for next year simply because it may take Brady until the games 6-10 of next season to start rounding back into form. Remember, Manning did not have nearly the surgery of Brady, and he did not come back well until halfway thru the season, and Carson Palmer has never really fully recovered.
d. Try for Lienart from Cardinals or Young from Tenn, but they were drafted so high, cannot get them for less than a 1st and they are not likely worth it.

2. Have to resign Jordan Gross quickly. We need him at Left Tackle. Keeping Otah at Right Tackle allows for a dynamic running game to either side, and Gross is a very solid pass blocker to protect the QB's blind side. We franchised him this year, and cannot afford to this year. Why?

3. Because we have to resign Peppers. Either give him the $ he wants, or we franchise Peppers for next year and try to work out a deal over the season. We only have 1 franchise, so it's either Peppers or Gross. Have to keep Peppers.

4. With our 2nd rounder in 2009, get a high caliber WR to go with Steve Smith. Moose was good this year, but he's long in the tooth. And I dont see Jarrett as the answer. Jarrett is an OK 3rd option, but not a 2nd.

Your ideas?
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Re: Offseason Goals 

Post#2 » by Rooster » Sun Jan 11, 2009 5:03 pm

Gross and Peppers are obvious priorities. I don't agree on the other two points though.

12-4 means a lot more than that horrible game. Hypothetical situation: what if we'd been pummeled by the Cardinals in the regular season but beaten them in the playoffs? Suddenly we have a QB who threw more INTs than TDs on the season but who came through in the playoffs. The Panthers just picked the worst possible time to play poorly. It isn't even limited to Delhomme - the OL was so awful at times I can't believe there weren't more forced fumbles and sacks.

Delhomme makes too much for the Browns to want him as a backup, no less. Bringing in a young QB makes sense, but Delhomme's done a lot on the Panthers. Remember how good the Panthers were without him last year?

Why draft a WR in the second round? I thought that's what Dwayne Jarrett was for. (Whoops.) Pick up a FA, I suppose. This team's needs are in the secondary. This game wasn't the first time a team got some passing yards against the Panthers.
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Re: Offseason Goals 

Post#3 » by Miklo » Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:47 pm

At this point, Delhomme is not very expendable. We can't just say, "Our QB screwed up really bad in the Playoffs...want him?"

However I have to agree with OPer, I don't think we owe Jake a starting position anymore. Rooster you're certainly right about the fact that we can't call 12-4, nor any other of Jake's past seasons, dismal. On the other hand, I would like to focus on what you said about the Panthers having picked the worst time to play poorly. This is not the first time over the past few years that in key situations, we have failed to step up.

Jake is a good QB. He has games where he rivals Brady, Manning and co. as an elite QB. But like any sports situation, when you have a guy who you depend on to run the offense the horrible games count more than the great ones. And he had a few dismal games this season, a couple of which we were able to escape from thanks to Smash & Dash.

As a North Carolinian, I have rode the ups and downs of the Panthers for years and feel like I have a realistic perspective and get very attached to our players, giving them every last chance. But honestly we have surrounded Jake with talent over the years, and it comes down to the fact that we need a QB who, every afternoon as he walks out onto the field makes me feel like we will beat the opponent with his passes to our star receivers and the running games of our dynamic duo.

While I do feel very strongly that Jake is not our answer, it certainly will be tough to maneuver into a good replacement answer given our current situation with picks as well as our other star players being irreplaceable. My idea from the get-go has been Cassel. New England obviously has no need for such talent to be sitting on their bench and, ultimately, knows that he will warrant a bigger contract come re-signing. I don't know if we are in a position to offer them enough value, and if not we may need to give Jake another season at the helm.
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Re: Offseason Goals 

Post#4 » by Rooster » Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:44 am

I'm not sold on Cassel. If you want to compare him to Delhomme, why not swap them straight-up, let Brady take a breather and watch how well Delhomme does with Moss, Welker and the NE O-Line?

I don't believe the Panthers have ever lost a game in which a win would've meant playoffs. In general, they always either miss the playoffs entirely (hence no clutch games) or get pretty far, which is a success anyway. Other than this Cardinals game, I can't recall a time when the Panthers have ever choked to end a winning season.
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Re: Offseason Goals 

Post#5 » by carolinabred » Wed Jan 14, 2009 11:08 pm

Let's not forget that the DB's got killed the last few weeks. Lucas has to go. Not to mention the D-Line is not great. Fox likes to rush 4, and he has to get to the QB with four lineman. This D was at its best when we had a strong D-line. The Defense has to get better. Remember Jake threw 5 INT's but The Defense gave up the points..
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Re: Offseason Goals 

Post#6 » by ohara » Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:25 pm

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/597/story/478863.html

OK. Peppers wants out. Fine. Franchise him and trade him. Gotta sign Gross now without franchising him again though. But get what we can for Peppers. Options:
1. Trade to NE for Cassell and NE's 1st.
2. To Detroit for Detroits 2 first rounders - #1 and somewhere around #19 (Dallas's pick)
3. Fill DE spot via FA or Draft; best option is FA.
4.Other options?
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Re: Offseason Goals 

Post#7 » by ohara » Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:34 pm

http://blogs.charlotte.com/panthers/200 ... -make.html

Good read on options we have and our decision.
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Re: Offseason Goals 

Post#8 » by Rooster » Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:47 pm

What a slap in the face that is. What justification does he have for this? Not to mention a $17M tender is outrageous.

If we can get #1 and #19 for him, that's an obvious deal. No question. Since the article brings up Jared Allen, Peppers for Allen straight up might not offend me... of course, the Vikings wouldn't do it.
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Re: Offseason Goals 

Post#9 » by ohara » Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:56 pm

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/rumors/post ... nfl,135548

Def. Coord. took a lot of flack this season for some defensive breakdowns. If he's gone and we can keep Peppers, I'll be very happy!
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Re: Offseason Goals 

Post#10 » by carolinabred » Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:11 am

Not too impressed with Meeks but it feels like Pep is gone and Lucas needs to be gone. I think the D-Line needs to be rebuild.
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Re: Offseason Goals 

Post#11 » by spaceman_E » Fri Feb 6, 2009 7:48 pm

Ok here is my offseason blueprint for the Panthers:

1. Franchise Peppers. Trade him.
He has said he will not re-sign long term with us. We lost all of our defensive coaches and I imagine tried to give him some say in the replacement. Still no word on him wanting back into the fold so he is gone. He wants to go to a creative defense that plays the 3-4. We can't trade him in division and I think unless we get a significantly better deal, we aren't going to deal him to an NFC team either.

This leaves us with trade partners like the Chargers, Patriots, Steelers, Ravens, Jets, DolphinsBrowns might run a 3-4 with Mangini now, as well as the Broncos. The Ravens have too many of their own free agents to worry about so let's X them off. The Steelers just won the super bowl and already have James Harrison on the outside so no go there. The Chargers have Merriman coming off injury and probably would rather bank on him returning than giving up valuable picks for Peppers. This leaves us with the Jets, Browns, Broncos, Dolphins and Patriots. The browns have the #5 pick and I doubt we could get that from them so they aren't a great trading partner. The Broncos at #12 would be nice if we could also get a 3rd and a 2010 3rd which is about the same package that Jared Allen went for. I'd like to assume Pep is more valuable but only time will tell. Pats have #23, Jets #17 and Dolphins #25. Getting that package of a 1st and 2 3rds from any of those teams is what we should expect.

2. Sign Jordan Gross.
Pretty straightforward. He is a franchise tackle just a notch below the truly elite but he had a great season and will get a big time deal in the 60million range. But before we do that we need some cap space....

3. Cut Ken Lucas and D.J. Hackett
Lucas is 30 years old, has a big cap figure and coming off a poor second half to the season. Hackett's injury woes continued with us and he's only got 1 year left anyways. Richard Marshall can pick up the slack as the no.2 corner but we will have to add another young DB in the draft. At WR, Moose will return and start again with Jarrett and Ryne Robinson in the mix for the no.3 spot. I expect a cheap FA to also be brought into that competition. Landon Johnson is another candidate to be cut.

4. Make a decision on our QB spot.
This one is a bit vague and that's because we have several options. It sure seems like Jake is going to be back for at least 1 more year. If this happens, we definitely need to re-structure as he is due to count $11mil against the cap. If we can extend him a year or 2 we can get that down to around 6-8 hopefully. The only real QB I see out there we could bring in is Derek Anderson. I think he would be a slight upgrade and is cheaper, younger, and could be had relatively cheap(2nd or 3rd rounder I imagine). Cassell will be too costly a price and I'm not convinced he's not a product of Belicheck. We could potentially cut Jake and trade for Anderson but Fox just seems too much of a loyalty guy and will give Jake 1 more season. Expect to see a QB drafted in the first 4 rounds though.

5. Draft well and play it smart in Free Agency.
I thought we did a really good job of this last year as Stewart, Otah, Godfrey, Brayton all turned out pretty well. At the same time, Hackett never made an impact and Landon Johnson couldn't beat out Diggs at the SAM. This year our focus, after taking care of our own guys, needs to be on depth for the DL. Other things we need to look at are QB, no.3 CB, TE, no.3 WR. We will need a starter to replace Pep, someone who can really make an impact, and it wouldn't hurt if we had a DT who could make Damione Lewis a backup again.

In the draft, assuming we make that Pep deal, we need to go best DL in the 1st round. If one of the top QB's slip to our pick that could also be an option. In the 2nd round I would look for CB, QB, DL, TE in that order. Take the best value. With our 2 3rd rounders this is where we draft the best at whichever of those positions we haven't filled yet.

In Free Agency it would be nice to find a replacement for Peppers or a stud DT. Bert Berry and Jovan Haye are the best DE's on the market, not too impressive. Terrell Suggs as a full time DE could work. Haynesworth is a great player but not someone I want on my team. I would look into Owen Daniels at TE. I don't think Tony Gonzalez would be a great fit as he isn't really known for his blocking. Other than Suggs and Daniels, I don't see us finding a starter in FA, just depth.

Well, that's about it. Let's discuss.
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Re: Offseason Goals 

Post#12 » by ohara » Sun Feb 15, 2009 6:29 pm

Time is closing in on us. I have to think we will hear of a deal with Gross any day now. Then we franchise Peppers and will trade him for a #1 and a #2 or 2 #3's.

I was shocked all season long with Landon Johnson could not beat out Diggs. I see him staying with us ONLY if we switch to a 3-4 ourselves. Not likely. Lucas and Hackett will be gone. I saw enough improvement in Jarrett and Robinson to feel they will contribute nicely. But man, if we traded Peppers and got a Top 7 pick, would I love to see Crabtree in with Steve Smith! What a dilemma for defenses!

I am a big fan of Albert Haynesworth and would love to see him in Carolina. If we lose Peppers, we would have the money to spend on him, so that is surely one way we might end up going.

This week will be very crucial to how our team will be structured for this coming season. Crucial.
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Re: Offseason Goals 

Post#13 » by carolinabred » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:20 pm

I like Haynesworth too. Why does everyone think we have to tag Pep? I say let him walk and use the cap room to get Haynesworth or any DT that makes sense.
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Re: Offseason Goals 

Post#14 » by carolinabred » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:27 pm

spaceman_E wrote:Ok here is my offseason blueprint for the Panthers:

1. Franchise Peppers. Trade him.
He has said he will not re-sign long term with us. We lost all of our defensive coaches and I imagine tried to give him some say in the replacement. Still no word on him wanting back into the fold so he is gone. He wants to go to a creative defense that plays the 3-4. We can't trade him in division and I think unless we get a significantly better deal, we aren't going to deal him to an NFC team either.

This leaves us with trade partners like the Chargers, Patriots, Steelers, Ravens, Jets, DolphinsBrowns might run a 3-4 with Mangini now, as well as the Broncos. The Ravens have too many of their own free agents to worry about so let's X them off. The Steelers just won the super bowl and already have James Harrison on the outside so no go there. The Chargers have Merriman coming off injury and probably would rather bank on him returning than giving up valuable picks for Peppers. This leaves us with the Jets, Browns, Broncos, Dolphins and Patriots. The browns have the #5 pick and I doubt we could get that from them so they aren't a great trading partner. The Broncos at #12 would be nice if we could also get a 3rd and a 2010 3rd which is about the same package that Jared Allen went for. I'd like to assume Pep is more valuable but only time will tell. Pats have #23, Jets #17 and Dolphins #25. Getting that package of a 1st and 2 3rds from any of those teams is what we should expect.

2. Sign Jordan Gross.
Pretty straightforward. He is a franchise tackle just a notch below the truly elite but he had a great season and will get a big time deal in the 60million range. But before we do that we need some cap space....

3. Cut Ken Lucas and D.J. Hackett
Lucas is 30 years old, has a big cap figure and coming off a poor second half to the season. Hackett's injury woes continued with us and he's only got 1 year left anyways. Richard Marshall can pick up the slack as the no.2 corner but we will have to add another young DB in the draft. At WR, Moose will return and start again with Jarrett and Ryne Robinson in the mix for the no.3 spot. I expect a cheap FA to also be brought into that competition. Landon Johnson is another candidate to be cut.

4. Make a decision on our QB spot.
This one is a bit vague and that's because we have several options. It sure seems like Jake is going to be back for at least 1 more year. If this happens, we definitely need to re-structure as he is due to count $11mil against the cap. If we can extend him a year or 2 we can get that down to around 6-8 hopefully. The only real QB I see out there we could bring in is Derek Anderson. I think he would be a slight upgrade and is cheaper, younger, and could be had relatively cheap(2nd or 3rd rounder I imagine). Cassell will be too costly a price and I'm not convinced he's not a product of Belicheck. We could potentially cut Jake and trade for Anderson but Fox just seems too much of a loyalty guy and will give Jake 1 more season. Expect to see a QB drafted in the first 4 rounds though.

5. Draft well and play it smart in Free Agency.
I thought we did a really good job of this last year as Stewart, Otah, Godfrey, Brayton all turned out pretty well. At the same time, Hackett never made an impact and Landon Johnson couldn't beat out Diggs at the SAM. This year our focus, after taking care of our own guys, needs to be on depth for the DL. Other things we need to look at are QB, no.3 CB, TE, no.3 WR. We will need a starter to replace Pep, someone who can really make an impact, and it wouldn't hurt if we had a DT who could make Damione Lewis a backup again.

In the draft, assuming we make that Pep deal, we need to go best DL in the 1st round. If one of the top QB's slip to our pick that could also be an option. In the 2nd round I would look for CB, QB, DL, TE in that order. Take the best value. With our 2 3rd rounders this is where we draft the best at whichever of those positions we haven't filled yet.

In Free Agency it would be nice to find a replacement for Peppers or a stud DT. Bert Berry and Jovan Haye are the best DE's on the market, not too impressive. Terrell Suggs as a full time DE could work. Haynesworth is a great player but not someone I want on my team. I would look into Owen Daniels at TE. I don't think Tony Gonzalez would be a great fit as he isn't really known for his blocking. Other than Suggs and Daniels, I don't see us finding a starter in FA, just depth.

Well, that's about it. Let's discuss.


Good list I would add Cut Landon Johnson he did not look good at all the season.
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Re: Offseason Goals 

Post#15 » by ohara » Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:34 pm

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3919050


Yeah!!! We got Gross signed, and now franchise Peppers. At least we'll get something for him now rather than let him walk. It will be very interesting to see with whom we can trade and what picks or players come our way. Boy this is gonna be interesting!
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Re: Offseason Goals 

Post#16 » by Rooster » Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:26 am

It probably won't happen, but Peppers for Haynesworth straight up might not be the stupidest idea.
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Re: Offseason Goals 

Post#17 » by ohara » Fri Feb 20, 2009 1:44 am

Haynesworth is a FA already. I would love to get him, but dont think we need to trade with Tenn to get him. Just pony up the money. And with Peppers to be traded, we should have some cap room to get him I would think. But it depends if he fits the Defense we will use. He's not a DE, and that is where we will be hurting with Peppers gone. There are only a few DE in FA, and none anywhere near Pepper's standing. So unless we get a Rookie in the Draft, and Rookies never break out at the DE position, we are going to have to get lucky with a FA who just picks up his game, or one of our current guys will suddenly have to explode. But I see our Defensive Line as being far less potent next year than in the past. And that ain't a good thing.
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Re: Offseason Goals 

Post#18 » by spaceman_E » Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:22 pm

Do you guys really want a player who knocked off someones helmet and then stomped on his head? We are the Panthers, not the Cowboys and I can't see the Richardsons ok'ing Haynesworths signing. That's just me though...

I expect to see us go DL with at least 2 of our first 4 picks, after we trade Pep. We also need a CB if we cut lucas and TE wouldn't be terrible either since we've neglected it for so long. After that, more depth at DL is a need.
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Re: Offseason Goals 

Post#19 » by ohara » Fri Feb 27, 2009 12:51 am

http://blogs.charlotte.com/panthers/

Rats! Lucas, you big do do bird! I can understand tho. He would rather be cut and go where he wants rather than be traded. But we could use the pick we were to have received. Now, if we cut his sorry butt, it saves us cap space.
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Re: Offseason Goals 

Post#20 » by Rooster » Mon Mar 2, 2009 1:24 am

What I want to know is why Panthers management gave him that trade veto in the first place. He's just not worth that.
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