1/12/2009 Woelfel: Conley deal waiting for Herb (poll added)

[ReasonablySober]

I wasn't comfortable with the idea of giving Sessions big money this summer.

He wouldn't have gotten big money this summer, MLE max. The teams that have cap space beyond MLE are all saving it for the 2010 FA bonanza. He wouldn't have gotten more than the MLE.

While I don't necessarily agree that he wouldn't have received more, the MLE to me is pretty significant cash.

[LUKE23]

While I don't necessarily agree that he wouldn't have received more, the MLE to me is pretty significant cash.

I guess we will see this summer, but my guess is he does not get more than the MLE. First off, not that many teams have 2009 space, most have it in 2010, and most teams that do have 2009 space I'm willing to bet are waiting on the James/Wade/Bosh class.

I don't consider MLE significant money for either a good starter or a great backup PG. What is that, about $6M per?

[europa]

I also don't like that Kohl has to give his approval. No More Meddling.

He is the owner of the team, MD. I understand your point but I don't think it's outrageous that he wants to have some say in the team he's spending a lot of money on. I think that's understandable.

If the deal turns out to be Conley/future 1st for Sessions/Alexander, I'm fine with it. I love how aggressive Hammond has been in terms of fixing this team and given how he hasn't made a bad trade yet, I'm optimistic this one will have a chance to work out as well.

It's a gamble, no doubt about it. But Conley's upside is huge and I think it's a gamble worth taking. I agree with Press that Skiles is playing a role here too. I'm not sure he's ever been entirely satisfied or comfortable with Sessions.

[paulpressey25]

Haha, we're all trying to rationalize this however we can. .

And the guy would only be a college junior this season, he missed 29 games as a rookie and 18-months ago was the consensus #4 pick in a very deep draft.

As part of my rationalizing, I'm noting that all our over-achieving second round picks have ultimately hit a big wall in what they ultimately become because they were missing certain athletic attributes to begin with. Guys picked in that 4/5 hole like Conley tend to be picked there for a reason.

[LUKE23]

If the deal turns out to be Conley/future 1st for Sessions/Alexander, I'm fine with it.

What if it is Conley/2nd for Sessions/JA?

[carmelbrownqueen]

Memphis did a horrible job developing Conley and as a consequence he has lost all of his confidence. I think with a little time he could still develop into something pretty special on this level. He plays so much bigger than his size and plays well with a big man.

[LUKE23]

In what way did Memphis do a horrible job of developing Conley? Not enough playing time? Bad coaching? I'd like some specifics on that one.

[wichmae]

I also don't like that Kohl has to give his approval. No More Meddling.

It's my understanding that viritually every owner has to sign off on deals, and Hammond said he thought that was a good thing. I only want assurance that nobody else in Kohl's circle is being asked to look it over.

This is true although I dont realy know how the full rundown goes but every owner usually signs off on moves.

[Badgerlander]

Of course if we make more trades and clear some cap space, maybe we resign Sessions this summer? lol

[Captain Erv]

I really don't understand this at all. It is pretty much a consensus that we will have to decide between signing CV or Sesh correct? Still that being the case, you can put me in the I hate this trade category. Also to give up on JA before he ever sees any significant minutes seems ridiculous. Yeah I know we all like to sit here and trash him for the most part, but it just seems like we are giving up an awful lot for a guy who is close to having the "bust" label.

I reallllly hope Hammond knows what he is doing..

[crkone]

I would do a Conley/2nd for Sessions/JA. We hit on our 2nd rounders and if that 2nd rounder can be on the level of LRMAM or Sessions, this was a great deal. Conley I just think needs a better system. How did he do playing with either Gasol though? Did he set them up for easy dunks like Oden?

[Licensed to Il]

Put me down as someone who would be excited about this deal. A quick summary, some of these points have already been made:

- Luc Mbaute a Boute has exceeded expectations SO MUCH (long term starter, defensive game changing potential) that Joe Alexander is expendible. And maybe he is exactly where the organization thought he would be (though more likely he has dissapointed). Regardless, when you hit a home run (Luc), then you can afford to change your plans in other areas

- Luke Ridnour has played great this last month, but does anyone think he is a starter on a club that goes deep in the postseason, year in and year out? I love the kid, but I don't think he is that level of point guard. The point guard in Skiles system has to do three things: stop ball penetration, run the offense, and manage "game pace". Those were three things that all the scouts raved about with Conley. Has he shown those things yet? No, because..

- ... a "throwback" point guard, a guy who makes the right pass and plays good team defense, is an extension of the coach, etc. is not going to shine in a toilet bowl situation. I'm not saying that there is not talent in Memphis, but they have not exactly been a sitution over the last two seasons where a heady guy that plays the right way will stand out. Again, not saying that Conley has played well... he has dissapointed to be sure. But look at how much better, say, Charlie Bell has looked this year compared to last year, and I think the precident is there that a structured environment with accountibility from the coaching staff will make certain players shine more than others

- Trade value? It does seem like we are overpaying a little here, giving up two prospects for one. But I guarentee that there are a dozen other teams bidding for a prospect like Conley, and accordingly, we are going to have to make an offer that puts us to the front. IF the Bucks love the long term potential of Sessions and Alexander, than they are giving up too much here. BUT if Skiles doesn't see Sessions as his long term starter, or Alexander ever beating out Mboute a Moute.. then it is not giving up too much at all.

[jerrod]

I've learned to dismiss April stats of players on bad teams.

took you long enough

[carmelbrownqueen]

In what way did Memphis do a horrible job of developing Conley? Not enough playing time? Bad coaching? I'd like some specifics on that one.

Developing a player takes more than giving them playing time, they also need someone working with these guys that can help them enhance their strengths and it doesn't appear as if that was done with Conley.

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

I have too much invested as stubborn, blindfaith bucks fan to accept it right now. Can't believe we are trading Magic. Once its official, I would hang of the phone and start pouring champagne on everyone and taking bill simmons articles to say how awesome it was.

[europa]

If the deal turns out to be Conley/future 1st for Sessions/Alexander, I'm fine with it.

What if it is Conley/2nd for Sessions/JA?

Not as comfortable but given Conley's high ceiling I'd still do it - and the one thing Hammond has shown as a drafter so far is he can find gems in the second round.

[LUKE23]

Not as comfortable but given Conley's high ceiling I'd still do it - and the one thing Hammond has shown as a drafter so far is he can find gems in the second round.

Isn't Sessions ceiling just as high (if not higher)? He's played better to this point and is only one year older, and both are in their second seasons.

If it's a first, I am down with the trade, it's a 2nd, not so much.

[eagle13]

Not comfortable...
Already making excuses for why Conley is playing below expectations = Mayo & Gay, no decent 5, etc.
Ramon's stats already > Conleys.
We get smaller.
IF we're trading Ramon couldn't we use him (with others) to get a PF?

Like it ONLY IF we get 1st unprotected.
If not = not.

so much for all those experts who said we'd never trade JA this year.

Owner or not - for such a small trade its bothersome Kohl needs to approve. Should be automatic for small $ deals.

[europa]

I really don't understand this at all. It is pretty much a consensus that we will have to decide between signing CV or Sesh correct?

I still think the chances of Villanueva being with the team when next season begins are remote. I think the big deal here is Sessions being traded (if it happens). I think this is a strong signal that Skiles doesn't view him as the PG of the future. Hammond may not view him in that light either and so they don't want to commit to him financially. Now they acquire a PG who fits more of what Skiles is looking for and will be more affordable.

[europa]

Not as comfortable but given Conley's high ceiling I'd still do it - and the one thing Hammond has shown as a drafter so far is he can find gems in the second round.

Isn't Sessions ceiling just as high (if not higher)?

I don't believe it is. Conley went fourth for a reason last year. He came into the league with virtually everyone believing he had major talent. It clearly hasn't happened yet but if it does (and yes that's an "if" which is why this is a gamble), Hammond will have gotten the best player in the trade - and perhaps by a considerable margin. As much as I like Sessions, I don't think he has Conley's ceiling.