1/12/2009 Woelfel: Conley deal waiting for Herb (poll added)

[smauss]

The biggest idea in this trade with Sessions/Conley is not as much about basketball ability per se but more about their basketball abilities fitting the system employed.

[jerrod]

I'm guessing that both Sessions and Alexander will become solid NBA players (Sessions with I think Mo-like limitations). If Hammond/Skiles are right, we're trading value for value. But, since I have faith so far in Hammond/Skiles, I will expect that we'll be getting the best player. I like quality (and precise fit) over quantity.

what i find interesting about that is that you still have so much faith in hammond's player judging ability even though the 2 players we're getting rid of are players hammond was a big fan of (as we've been told).

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=777168&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

uh oh, once you reopen those gates to the past, they can't be closed again

[magpies]

Not a fan of this deal, we still keep Gaz, Sessions will still have trade value next season, Alexander can only go up and while Conley will always have value with Oden wanting him this deal does not really help us in many ways.

My only thought is there must be another trade about to happen which includes either CV or Redd but since Sessions is going I bet CV is next

[LUKE23]

So if this trade goes down, we have Conley/LRMAM/Bogut as long-term players on this roster (by long-term, I'm saying a 100% lock past 2010-11). I like the defensive ability of that trio pretty well, I have to admit. The overall offensive talent on the roster is what concerns me. Both Redd and RJ have already hit or about to hit their decline, we could really use an upper-tier offensive player in the next draft (especially when you consider we will likely also be losing CV next season).

Our rotation next season appears to be:

Ridnour/Conley
Redd/Bell
Jefferson/Ilyasova
LRMAM/2009 1st?
Bogut/Gadzuric

or something like that. Could definitely use another offensive stud in there.

[REDDzone]

What about all of Sessions' point guard instincts which can't be learned?

I think Conley was born with them as well.

Its a gene you know, the PG allele.

[MikeIsGood]

we could really use an upper-tier offensive player in the next draft (especially when you consider we will likely also be losing CV next season).

I personally, and I believe you agree, really want James Harden. Unfortunately, it becomes less realistic with each Bucks W, and with each passing game of his.

[WiscoKing13]

you think the bucks could sweaten the deal by if they'd switch Gadz and darko?

I'd feel a lot better about the deal if we got one less year in cap hell with out of gadz and you can still say the word potential with darko.

[LUKE23]

I personally, and I believe you agree, really want James Harden. Unfortunately, it becomes less realistic with each Bucks W, and with each passing game of his.

Oh, without question, the guy is a monster. He and Griffin are the only two guys I really, really want in this draft. And yeah, don't see us having a chance at either.

But my point was more that Hammond is building a strong defensive core (I think Conley is a good defender, not elite, but clearly better than Sessions), LRMAM can guard multiple spots, and Bogut is one of the better defensive C's out there when you factor both positional d, help d, and shotblocking.

[MikeIsGood]

Oh, definitely don't disagree with you there. I was really just picking out a specific point of your post and day-dreaming about actually bringing in Harden.

[bigkurty]

I personally, and I believe you agree, really want James Harden. Unfortunately, it becomes less realistic with each Bucks W, and with each passing game of his.

Oh, without question, the guy is a monster. He and Griffin are the only two guys I really, really want in this draft. And yeah, don't see us having a chance at either.

But my point was more that Hammond is building a strong defensive core (I think Conley is a good defender, not elite, but clearly better than Sessions), LRMAM can guard multiple spots, and Bogut is one of the better defensive C's out there when you factor both positional d, help d, and shotblocking.

Cue comment about how we have to move Redd than more than anyone.

[bigkurty]

What about all of Sessions' point guard instincts which can't be learned?

I think Conley was born with them as well.

Its a gene you know, the PG allele.

Maybe my problem is I just have the Magic Sessions loving allele.

[magpies]

Still believe we need a PF not a point guard at this point, I like Conley's speed but the rest of his game needs time, Sessions is further ahead in his development. Alexander I am not sure what to make of him but it seems a waste of a pick and if he is a bust our scouts need a good kicking

[MrLynch07]

One thing about Conley that alot of people haven't really kept in mind, myself included, is that he did only play 1 year of college ball, so could it be possible that he hampered his own potential with not getting more college experience, or does he have the potential, it's just going to take longer for him to really start coming around going from 1 year college to two years nba, idk just brainstorming.

[MrLynch07]

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/mike-conley

The Vid Shocked me at the bottom first thing i saw was Bucks logo.

[Bernman]

I personally, and I believe you agree, really want James Harden. Unfortunately, it becomes less realistic with each Bucks W, and with each passing game of his.

Oh, without question, the guy is a monster. He and Griffin are the only two guys I really, really want in this draft. And yeah, don't see us having a chance at either.

But my point was more that Hammond is building a strong defensive core (I think Conley is a good defender, not elite, but clearly better than Sessions), LRMAM can guard multiple spots, and Bogut is one of the better defensive C's out there when you factor both positional d, help d, and shotblocking.

An issue which you and I agree on (although I'd add Daye, Monroe, and maybe DeRozan)....this draft is crap....to wit...why not actively shop our pick this season for immediate help to address our obvious depth issues? Not saying include it in this deal just cuz, but send it to a non playoff contender before the break. Maybe compile a couple 2-3 2nd rounders because few prospects are separating themselves from the pack, and hope we hit on one as we are accustomed. Do you agree?

[unklchuk]

jerrod wrote:

I'm guessing that both Sessions and Alexander will become solid NBA players (Sessions with I think Mo-like limitations). If Hammond/Skiles are right, we're trading value for value. But, since I have faith so far in Hammond/Skiles, I will expect that we'll be getting the best player. I like quality (and precise fit) over quantity.

what i find interesting about that is that you still have so much faith in hammond's player judging ability even though the 2 players we're getting rid of are players hammond was a big fan of (as we've been told).

I don't view that as a contradiction. As stated, the trade would be value for value. Trading two good players (the Grizz' interest confirms Hammond's judgment) for a player they think will be better than good and a fit so fine they can build on him.

Yi had value too, and Hammond was willing to trade him & Simmons for someone he thought better, Jefferson, who no doubt will find himself any day now



My hunches agree with whomever said that this trade happening would suggest another major trade (IMO with CV, Redd, or Jefferson as the main piece) coming shortly. Howsomever, that may be wishful hoping...

[LUKE23]

An issue which you and I agree on (although I'd add Daye, Monroe, and maybe DeRozan)....this draft is crap....to wit...why not actively shop our pick this season for immediate help to address our obvious depth issues? Not saying include it in this deal just cuz, but send it to a non playoff contender before the break. Do you agree?

Yeah, in general I just don't like giving up first round picks because teams mess up all the time (the Bucks!!) and you can get good players even in the mid first. It would depend on the return for the 2009 pick as to if I'd move it.

Can trading our 2009 first rounder get us a player that can push us to a possible 50 wins next year, with a core of Ridnour/Redd/Jefferson/LRMAM/Bogut/Conley/Bell/Gadz/Ilyasova?

[EastSideBucksFan]

I'm starting to warm up to the deal a bit (or maybe I'm just talking myself into it if it happens)

But from the Bucks perspective, if they see Sessions as just a combo-guard with a looming payday and not the PG of the future for us, then I can see why his actual value is much lower than the perceived value he's been placed on this board. Perhaps we are seeing him from a "Larry Harris" perspective of "ooooooh, he can score" not from a Hammond perspective of "can he really lead this team"

If the Harris era taught us anything, then we need to learn that it is better to move a player and receive some value for him, rather than overpay him to avoid him "walking for nothing"

Alexander, the player he is or is not aside, just doesn't fit into this roster or teams future plans anymore. I don't see him being a starter this year or next so thats a good two full seasons of a bench player and then who knows what his real ceiling is.

Of course, this really hinges on the future development of Conley. If he can make a Devin Harris like transformation by switching teams, we will come out looking like genius'. If he can't make the jump and Sessions or JA starts to blow up much sooner than expected, then we will be eating crow on this trade.

Its a gamble, but Conley has the potential to be a top tier PG, obviously management doesn't feel that way about Sessions. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt going into this trade, but reserve the right to hate it if it doesn't work out.

[aboveAverage]

I'll be OK on this trade if we at get a pick back.

[WEFFPIM]

There HAS to be something else coming from Memphis other than Conley. Otherwise this deal is just flat out bad.