1/12/2009 Woelfel: Conley deal waiting for Herb (poll added)

[MajorDad]

can somebody start a new thread that summarizes this 31 page thread with highlights and pointers to key posts to read?

[Joana]

In what way did Memphis do a horrible job of developing Conley? Not enough playing time? Bad coaching? I'd like some specifics on that one.

In my view, the lack of movement and motion on Marc Iavaroni's half-court offense is extraordinary. It's, by far, the most stagnant offense in the league; heavily based on players creating off the dribble on clearouts or 2men game - and I'd go as far as saying it's probably one of the most boring offenses in the NBA during the last half a decade or so.

That's really interesting.
Where would you put the Bucks' offense vs. the league average w/ respect to movement & motion?
What about the Buckeyes'?

I don't know how to calculate the league average. I like what the Bucks do, though, a motion offense with an acceptable amount of passing and screening and off-the-ball action and some lethal signature plays (lethal when our shooters are on...). I think the Bucks, while not ubber-entertaining, are a well-coached team that's enjoyable to watch. The Buckeyes usually play a patterned box offense, but when Conley was there (paired with Oden - a high quality guard/big duo) they ran a very limited set of plays, relying heavily on the pick and roll and on a high-low game (that they'd use when Oden was able to dominate at will, like in the game vs. Georgetown when Hibbert was in the bench).

Anyway, my post was not an indictment of Iavaroni's offense (only stylistically, but that's merely a matter of taste - and we're just talking about the half-court offense), let alone a way of absolving Conley for his lack of production; don't read it that way. But it's a spread offense that relies on the superiority of each individual player to create his own shot (of course that Memphis players aren't generally superior to their opponents, but that's why Mayo and Gay hold the ball so much, play 1vs5 so frequently and they lost most of their games). Here and there they have Gasol dishing from the high post to some cuts (like we frequently do with Bogut), but it doesn't get more complex than that. Eventually it can indeed be the best fit for the kind of players they have. But this type of game doesn't require a lot from the PG, except the execution of some patterned passes to initiate the offense and then move to spread the floor and provide space to penetrations/shots (Sessions is indeed a good fit for them, although he'd be an even better one if he had a good jumper). I don't think this is a very good situation to a point-guard like Conley, who'd be better served in a frame where he could read defenses, call the right plays and put the ball on his scorer - I'd say it makes difficult to assess Conley. But I also believe Conley was much more impressive on the college game because of his vastly superior athletic tools - especially his outstanding quickness while dribbling. I think that in the NBA he can't get anywhere he wants when he wants anymore, like he used to, and that took away a lot of what he could offer right off the bat. He's a talented lad though, who still has time to learn the job - something he wasn't able to do in college (he should have stayed more time there, playing without Oden) or in Memphis. Still, his lack of improvement so far - and how not having the athletic advantage affected his game - is a big reason for concern, I think.

[Baddy Chuck]

can somebody start a new thread that summarizes this 31 page thread with highlights and pointers to key posts to read?

-Kohl's meddling
-Its Kohl's team let him do what he wants
-Alexander sucks
-Give Alexander time
-Conley is better then Sessions
-Sessions is better then Conley
-It saves us money
-We should get a first in return
-No way they give up a first
-We might get LAL's 2010 first
-Ask for a Gadz/Darko swap
-Theyd decline a Gadz/Darko swap
-Hammond knows what he's doing
-If Hammond likes the deal so do I
-I still hate the deal
-Im split with the deal

Give you a good summary?

[ReasonablySober]

My guess is this one is off.

I wonder how much the internet has to do with a lot of deals getting nixed.

How soon after this deal was initially discussed did it hit the web? How soon after was it discussed on msg boards and relayed to those involved? How soon did other GMs get wind and call up with other deals? Or agents call up and get in the ear of the GM/Head Coach?

[Mags FTW]

We're the real meddlers.

[GrandAdmiralDan]

My guess is this one is off.

I wonder how much the internet has to do with a lot of deals getting nixed.

How soon after this deal was initially discussed did it hit the web? How soon after was it discussed on msg boards and relayed to those involved? How soon did other GMs get wind and call up with other deals? Or agents call up and get in the ear of the GM/Head Coach?

All good questions.

As much as sites like RealGM and the internet in general get disparaged at times, one really can't argue that they don't have effects to varying degrees on stuff like this.

I was thinking about this exact thing before ultimately deciding to share the Villanueva/Landry/etc. thing on here. I had shared it with a couple people off the board, but even once I was able to share it ON the board I considered sitting on it, out of fear that putting it out there might in some way jeopardize the deal. Once WSSP started mentioning CV and Lue possibly being traded, I ultimately decided to put all my info out on here.

Interesting to think about.

[drew881]

I disagree, but you guys can keep fluffing each other over your worth.

[power4wardjinx]

Nevermind.

[bgassassin]

So GAD, is this deal going down or what?

I'm not sure.
The player agents involved seemed to think it was at least up until earlier tonight, but since about 7:30pm-ish people stopped saying ANYTHING about this trade and would just try and change the subject. Woelfel said on the radio that he wasn't sure what that seemed to indicate and I'm not sure either.

People might get carried away with this, but I have heard something to indicate that the final details of this trade were never going to be completed until after Memphis found out whether or not Joe Alexander was going to be in the dunk contest. Voting for that closes on January 15th. I'm not sure how soon after that they will have the final vote tally.

I am not sure what exactly would be affected, but my GUESS is that if Alexander IS in the dunk contest and becomes more marketable, Memphis will agree to more financial compensation to us in the form of cash and/or eating salary we don't want to pay, such as a Darko for Gadz swap or us including Malik Allen or Francisco Elson. That's just my guess based on me having a hard time believing that anything else in this deal could be subject to Alexander getting in the dunk contest or not.

Just letting you know that I am hijacking your post and placing it here.

http://boards.grizzliesonline.com/index ... topic=4424

[Mike X]

can somebody start a new thread that summarizes this 31 page thread with highlights and pointers to key posts to read?

-Kohl's meddling
-Its Kohl's team let him do what he wants
-Alexander sucks
-Give Alexander time
-Conley is better then Sessions
-Sessions is better then Conley
-It saves us money
-We should get a first in return
-No way they give up a first
-We might get LAL's 2010 first
-Ask for a Gadz/Darko swap
-Theyd decline a Gadz/Darko swap
-Hammond knows what he's doing
-If Hammond likes the deal so do I
-I still hate the deal
-Im split with the deal

Give you a good summary?

Theres an embargo on doing Majordads research since he outed himself. Didnt you know.

[power4wardjinx]

My guess is this one is off.

I wonder how much the internet has to do with a lot of deals getting nixed.

How soon after this deal was initially discussed did it hit the web? How soon after was it discussed on msg boards and relayed to those involved? How soon did other GMs get wind and call up with other deals? Or agents call up and get in the ear of the GM/Head Coach?

Are you suggesting that the loose lips in the Bucks organization may not have the best interests of the organization at heart when they're "leaking" these so-called trades and other info?

[El Duderino]

My guess is this one is off.

I wonder how much the internet has to do with a lot of deals getting nixed.

How soon after this deal was initially discussed did it hit the web? How soon after was it discussed on msg boards and relayed to those involved? How soon did other GMs get wind and call up with other deals? Or agents call up and get in the ear of the GM/Head Coach?

Are you suggesting that the loose lips in the Bucks organization may not have the best interests of the organization at heart when they're "leaking" these so-called trades and other info?

'

It may have been agents and not the Bucks who leaked the info

[GrandAdmiralDan]

I disagree, but you guys can keep fluffing each other over your worth.

What's your problem?
Is a comment like that at all warranted?

Also, while DrugBust and I generally do get along, you obviously don't pay attention around here very well if you think he is at all likely to be "fluffing" me on anything related to this topic.

I'd invite you to examine both his and my comment more carefully.

[MajorDad]

mike x. i got a job now. i don't have time to read all 31 pages of a single thread. I value my time so i can make one page posts arguing with ryan and twirls on the brewers board and on other threads on this board.

[trwi7]

I value my time so i can make one page posts arguing with ryan and twirls on the brewers board and on other threads on this board.

So you enjoy getting pwned?

[drew881]

I disagree, but you guys can keep fluffing each other over your worth.

What's your problem?
Is a comment like that at all warranted?

Also, while DrugBust and I generally do get along, you obviously don't pay attention around here very well if you think he is at all likely to be "fluffing" me on anything related to this topic.

I'd invite you to examine both his and my comment more carefully.

It wasn't directed only at you. I've made similar comments in the past about MANY people on this forum overvaluing the worth of it, so don't take it personally. Sure its fun to discuss basketball, and certain people know certain people so yes, we do hear some good news every once in a while, but I think it is somewhat delusional to think that owners, executives, and players really care what a few internet fans think (especially in comparison to the vast majority of mainstream fans who don't care as much and account for 99.9% of revenue). Other forms of media analysis outside newspapers like blogs do have more clout these days, but I still don't think they are heavily influencing decision making.

[Scoops]

I disagree, but you guys can keep fluffing each other over your worth.

What's your problem?
Is a comment like that at all warranted?

Also, while DrugBust and I generally do get along, you obviously don't pay attention around here very well if you think he is at all likely to be "fluffing" me on anything related to this topic.

I'd invite you to examine both his and my comment more carefully.

It wasn't directed only at you. I've made similar comments in the past about MANY people on this forum overvaluing the worth of it, so don't take it personally. Sure its fun to discuss basketball, and certain people know certain people so yes, we do hear some good news every once in a while, but I think it is somewhat delusional to think that owners, executives, and players really care what a few internet fans think (especially in comparison to the vast majority of mainstream fans who don't care as much and account for 99.9% of revenue). Other forms of media analysis outside newspapers like blogs do have more clout these days, but I still don't think they are heavily influencing decision making.

Assistant: Senator, we've just received word that the Realgm Bucks board got wind of the possible trade that sends Conley to Milwaukee. Several posters including one they call MBBOT are heavily against it. One even made the comment that if this deal goes through, the Senator is the suxorz.
Senator: Well for god sakes, pull the plug! Pull it now!

[RookieOfTheYear]

Assistant: Senator, we've just received word that the Realgm Bucks board got wind of the possible trade that sends Conley to Milwaukee. Several posters including one they call MBBOT are heavily against it. One even made the comment that if this deal goes through, the Senator is the suxorz.
Senator: Well for god sakes, pull the plug! Pull it now![/quote]

[TheTrivium]

Ok, Landry for CV, I got hyped for... This... Is a CRAP trade, Alexander is clearly the best prospect in this deal, I dont care if Conley was 4th pick of the draft. This like the falcons trading Favre away cause he played like (a)ss in his rookie season... You dont trade one of the strongest arms in the NFL, and you dont trade one of the best athletes in the NBA, nix this deal!!

[Sigra]

Sessions is being overrated here. He's a scoring point guard that can't shoot and doesn't defend. That being what it is, how likely do you see someone like that being given the keys to Skiles' team? Also, Will Perdue hit it on the head: Luc makes JA completely expendable. They play the same position, LRMAM just plays it much better and I don't see that changing any time soon.

In the end we're giving up two guys that don't fit into the future plans of this team and getting back a young, physically gifted kid that Skiles can work with on the cheap for the next few years.

+1

I really really love this trade. Conley was just in bad situation for that kind of player just like Ridnour was in bad situation in Seatle last few year. Inteligent team PGs are not good fit for young teams full of rookies who play stupid.

After that Ridnour trade I said that Luke will be great fit for win now team. I think same about Conley. In Hammond we trust !!!