1/12/2009 Woelfel: Conley deal waiting for Herb (poll added)

bucksbrewerspackersfan · Post #501 » by **bucksbrewerspackersfan** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:17 pm

I think it is far too early to compare Sessions to Andre Miller. I really think Sessions has a long ways to go to improve his game to be compared to Andre Miller. Not that Miller is a great player who will be in the hall of fame. Both are good young PG's who with the right people around them could be something good. I don't know if I would give up on JA just yet for Conley. But right now I don't if I like this trade or not. I think that is what both front offices are doing right now or they may have already made up their minds or one of them has lol. I think it is a fair trade at least we are not giving too much up I just like the chemistry the Bucks have as of late and making changes to it may alter that.

Fight the Tank · Post #502 » by **Fight the Tank** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:24 pm

Can I compare Conley to Kenny Anderson without a jumper even though I haven't seen him play one pro game?

smalls · Post #503 » by **smalls** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:25 pm

hoping for a 1st rounder to be included , but after last night and watchin JA out there yet again, he might just be too much of a project for this franchise right now. I've seen the Haislip comparisions but dont agree with those. Haislip was dumb as rocks and lazy, I dont think JA is either, he reminds me of a more athletic version of Kris Humphries, has the tools and talent, but is just too robotic to have it translate well to the NBA game. I like Sessions a lot but truth be told with the cap expected to stay flat or even decrease, there is no way we r gonna resign him on his potential, so getting conley at least buys u a couple years to get the team out of salry cap trouble.

LUKE23 · Post #504 » by **LUKE23** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:30 pm

i don't agree with that. i think whether this deal goes through or not, we're set at starting center, and counting on a young extremely inconsistent pg to significantly improve.

Your reading comprehension needs work. I said "if Conley pans out". Obviously if Hammond makes this deal, he views Conley as the better long-term prospect than Sessions, otherwise he doesn't give up the guy he views as better AND the 2008 lottery pick.

In addition, we are ALREADY counting on a "young extremely inconsistent pg to significantly improve" if we don't do the deal and keep Sessions.

Adam, regarding your point that it could be Sessions as well, I agree. I think looking through the eyes of Hammond here, if he does this deal he views Conley not only as the better prospect, but also sees that we have him at least three more years on a rookie scale, allowing us to get the finances in order to sign him long-term IF he indeed does pan out. With Sessions, they will sort of be at the hands of what the market dictates as his value, since he's RFA and the Bucks are not exactly sitting in good financial position.

But the deal comes down to the fact that Hammond views Conley very highly as a long-term PG answer if he makes this deal.

Debit One · Post #505 » by **Debit One** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:32 pm

LUKE23 wrote:I have to admit, one of my friends sold me on this deal last night.

How did he convince you? What was the rationale?

Post #506 » by **paulpressey25** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:33 pm

SupremeHustle wrote:[I said before, and PP you might appreciate the comparison, but I see a lot of Rod Strickland in Ramon.

Yeah, I agree with you there. That is a good call in his style of offensive play. I think Rod was a better ball-handler though and I'm not sure, but I think a better steal man. The challenge with Sessions is he just needs more time to learn and to have his role defined. If you told me he wouldn't improve on where he is now, I'd make this trade hands down. But add some improvement and you might have something that is a cross between Strickland and Andre Miller.

aboveAverage · Post #507 » by **aboveAverage** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:33 pm

I guess I've come around to this trade a little bit, but I don't mind if it doesn't go down. If we really can't keep Sessions next year, then we might as well get another young point guard who is still on his rookie deal. However, we might be throwing in Alexander a little too soon, because if he makes it into the dunk contest and does well (maybe he wins the whole thing?), his stock could rise a little bit. The dunk contest is on a national stage, and if some team is impressed by his dunking abilities, they may want to take a chance on him and we may get a better value for him.

Fight the Tank · Post #508 » by **Fight the Tank** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:35 pm

I am convinced JA will puke on himself in the dunk contest.

LUKE23 · Post #509 » by **LUKE23** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:36 pm

How did he convince you? What was the rationale?

Outside of just Conley's skillset, basically:

1. We could stand to not make this deal, missing a potential star PG, while also losing Ramon because of financial reasons this upcoming offseason if we don't get our books in order
2. The fact that we both agreed that neither Sessions nor Alexander will be a superstar player, so the risk of trading a star is low
3. Conley's fit with our current roster, more specifically the fact that he would be playing with a big man he could play off of, along with also being able to be developed under Skiles, a good teacher of basketball.

But I think it comes back to finances quite a bit. I think Sessions has proven to be a better player than Conley so far (though not by much), but I think all of that is negated by the fact that we can get Conley, a player who is near as good now with just as much potential, for three years on a rookie scale to see what we have there.

EastSideBucksFan · Post #510 » by **EastSideBucksFan** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:39 pm

I thought I would throw this blurb in here as it relates to upcoming trading deals

From Chris Sheridans Daily Dime

This quote is from a "league executive"

"I think what it tells you is that as we get to the deadline, we're going to see a ton of deals that are solely financially driven," said one league executive with knowledge of the Thunder-Mavs-Bobcats discussions. "Teams are cutting the bottom line, especially in light of the economy, the fact that the cap might stay flat this year and go down the following year, which means the luxury tax number will go down, too. If you have escalating deals and a de-escalating tax, that's the trend you're going to see."

Also, the Memphis writer claimed that Sessions will be a RFA, all the while I thought he was a UFA this upcoming offseason.

What is the real story? Is Sessions going to be RFA or UFA?

LUKE23 · Post #511 » by **LUKE23** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:39 pm

Sessions is RFA.

bucksbrewerspackersfan · Post #512 » by **bucksbrewerspackersfan** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:40 pm

Luke23 for once you sold me on something... Where do I sign up??

jerrod · Post #513 » by **jerrod** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:44 pm

LUKE23 wrote:
i don't agree with that. i think whether this deal goes through or not, we're set at starting center, and counting on a young extremely inconsistent pg to significantly improve.

Your reading comprehension needs work. I said "if Conley pans out".

i did miss that part. but i don't know what "pans out" means. does that mean he fulfills the crazy high ceiling some think he has and is a perennial all star or is it as a solid middle of the pack starting pg. i can't say we're set at anything until we see how he'll actually play. or we give him some huge unmovable deal

pilprin · Post #514 » by **pilprin** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:45 pm

If we are looking to trim $'s and save cash....who are the keepers? Who are the dumpers?

Has Redd's recent play made him a keeper?

Keepers-
Bogut
RJ

Dumpers-
Gadz
CV?
Redd?
Ridnour?
Bell?

Post #515 » by **ReasonablySober** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:46 pm

How on Earth could you possibly list RJ as a keeper?

LUKE23 · Post #516 » by **LUKE23** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:51 pm

The only two guys I would not move (barring obviously a great deal) right now would be Bogut/LRMAM. That is it.

EastSideBucksFan · Post #517 » by **EastSideBucksFan** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:52 pm

The fact that Sessions is RFA sours me on the deal a bit.

How many RFA's got offer sheets last offseason?

Zero

LUKE23 · Post #518 » by **LUKE23** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:54 pm

i did miss that part. but i don't know what "pans out" means. does that mean he fulfills the crazy high ceiling some think he has and is a perennial all star or is it as a solid middle of the pack starting pg. i can't say we're set at anything until we see how he'll actually play. or we give him some huge unmovable deal

It's projecting talent. All GM's have to do it, their jobs depend on it. If Hammond does make this trade, then he views Conley's long-term talent as better than Sessions' long-term talent. I don't think Conley has to turn into an all-star for this deal to be good, because they aren't trading a guy that projects to be an all-star. The deal would be predicated on us getting what ends up being the best player in the deal.

I don't understand the point you're trying to make. Both Conley and Sessions are in the same boat right now: relative unknowns that have shown flashes, but also a lot of inconsistency with a lot to improve on.

Rockmaninoff · Post #519 » by **Rockmaninoff** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:55 pm

EastSideBucksFan wrote:The fact that Sessions is RFA sours me on the deal a bit.

How many RFA's got offer sheets last offseason?

Zero

Carl Landry did. Houston matched. A very good contract for the team in terms of value.

Josh Smith did. Atlanta matched. A very good contract for the team in terms of value.

Any others I'm forgetting?

Next offseason looks to be a buyers market.

The RFA status of Sessions and Villanueva is my qualm with these trades as well. If they just would have explored Alexander/Gadzuric for Walker, dumping these guys wouldn't be quasi necessary. I do understand though that some of my ideas are a little harsh. But, no pain, no gain.

LUKE23 · Post #520 » by **LUKE23** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:56 pm

EastSideBucksFan wrote:The fact that Sessions is RFA sours me on the deal a bit.

How many RFA's got offer sheets last offseason?

Zero

That is fine, but we would still have to sign him, we don't just magically get him for a great contract if no one else signs him to an offer sheet.

Looking at our current salary situation, it won't be as easy as people think. That is one of the reasons that swayed me to the Conley deal, we have Conley at three years cheap, and there is a decent (not great, decent) shot he will end up being better than Sessions anyway.

Are you in favor of the proposed trade (Conley for Sessions/JA)?