we get screwed because Memphis was too slow

[revprodeji]

:o

You folks are downright mind-boggling.
!

I said Mchale screwed up, because that was a deeper draft and we could have got a CDR or a Jordan to develop and grow. Something of more value than the 2 2nd picks.

I was debating with Devil that I do think Bassy is a better PG than Chalmers. I think Chalmers is a poor-poor man greg Anthony. I think his offense is because of Wade. Not himself. His defense is nice, but he is not miles away from Bassy.

Bassy is improving his game. It takes time, but he is improving. His style is improving, his shooting is improving also. The point of the HS is to say that it is taking Telfair time to learn. Not that his learning curve is higher. But he needed time to season and grow. Chalmers did that in college, Bassy is doing that in the pro game.

You need to get over yourself sir. "my goodness" and the DR. JEFFERSON caps get old fast. My opinion is both players are good young pg prospects. I just prefer a pg that has the vision and playmaking ability of Bassy then someone "learning" how to be a pg.

[Jonathan Watters]

I said Mchale screwed up, because that was a deeper draft and we could have got a CDR or a Jordan to develop and grow. Something of more value than the 2 2nd picks.

I was debating with Devil that I do think Bassy is a better PG than Chalmers. I think Chalmers is a poor-poor man greg Anthony. I think his offense is because of Wade. Not himself. His defense is nice, but he is not miles away from Bassy.

Bassy is improving his game. It takes time, but he is improving. His style is improving, his shooting is improving also. The point of the HS is to say that it is taking Telfair time to learn. Not that his learning curve is higher. But he needed time to season and grow. Chalmers did that in college, Bassy is doing that in the pro game.

You need to get over yourself sir. "my goodness" and the DR. JEFFERSON caps get old fast. My opinion is both players are good young pg prospects. I just prefer a pg that has the vision and playmaking ability of Bassy then someone "learning" how to be a pg.

1 - Telfair is not improving. His numbers have gone down, in fact. He's shooting 34% from the floor this year. That's not improvement.

2 - You want to say that Chalmers isn't "miles" ahead of Telfair defensively, but do you even know what that means? I see a rookie coming in as a very good defender, quite a ways ahead of a guy who has had 4 years to learn how to play that end of the court. And that is beyond the fact that Chalmers has a good 3 inches on him

3 - In addition, it would be much easier to say that Chalmers is "miles" ahead of Telfair offensively, considering he's in a differently league in terms of shooting efficiency. Chalmers can hit an open shot, a very important part of being a good complementary player. Telfair would benefit absolutely zero from being on the same team as wade, because he can't exploit double teams and is nothing but a liability without the ball in his hands. For a guy that is a career backup, that's a critical flaw.

4 - Beyond Telfair never being more than a complement and not having the type of game that a natural roleplayer has, the fact that Telfair has done most of his work against subs and Chalmers against starters pretty much evens out any benefit Chalmers receives from playing with Wade.

The fact of the matter is that if you could trade Telfair for Chalmers, you'd do it in a heartbeat.

Chalmers is a prototype physically, has the proper mentality/skillset for a roleplayer, is already significantly more effective on both ends of the floor, has more upside due to his being relatively inexperienced as a primary ballhandler, and displays a trend substantial improvement in recent seasons. Telfair is undersized physically, can't be used as a roleplayer, is currently less effective at both ends of the floor, has very little upside and hasn't improved at all since entering the league.

If you can't see this, you are no better than the people who ran this franchise into the ground in the first place...

[shrink]

I like Telfair better than Chalmers too, so I guess I fall into your same category.

To be honest, its hard to compare the two PG's because they have strengths and weaknesses that are nearly opposite. Where Chalmers has size and strength, Telfair has quickness. Chalmers is a better scorer (though its tough to tell when he doesn't feel the defensive pressure next to Wade), and Telfair is the better passer, and usually is a low-turnover guy.

I also disagree that Telfair hasn't improved. You may disagree that he hasn't improved enough, but he was certainly better last year than expected, and this year he seems better as well .. particularly since Ollie went down.

For both PG's, opportunity has been a major determinant to their success. Chalmers fits MIA better than Telfair would, but not many teams have a Dwayne Wade talent, and I think Telfair would be a better PG on most teams.

[TheFranchise21]

It would be unfair to say Telfair's numbers have gone down without mentioning his minutes have gone down too. Telfair was a starter for over half the season last year, playing over 30mpg, don't be misleading and present arguments that only tell half the story.

[Jonathan Watters]

Oh, I'm fully aware that his minutes are down.

I don't make arguments that are misleading and only tell half the story - I'll leave that to other people around here. "Numbers" for me would always be per-minute production, because raw averages are generally used to mislead in this type of discussion.

Problem is, Telfair's per-minute production is lower as well. (imagine that, I wasn't trying to mislead you - his numbers just happen to stink)

Compared to his second year in the league, his per-minute production is down significantly.

Compared to last year, down just a little.

[the_bruce]

I would have taken chalmers anywhere after aug and westbrook if drafting for a pg, and I think that's what actually happened.

I'm not a huge bassy fan, he has very good pg skills, far better than chalmers. That said I'd take chalmers 10 out of 10 times for every team in the nba if I was choosing a starting PG.

Jordan\CDR\Chalmers on board and you sell the pick? Are you serious?
A 7 foot super athlete with limitless potential and ppr work ethic
Who wouldn't take CDR here, I mean seriously?
Prototypical NBA point guard with good D?!?

I understand taylor essentially got the value of a 1st for this pick, but these 3 guys all have high risk high reward payout. The 2nd round is where you should take this sort of gamble since their contracts are so small, and these 3 guys all have starting caliber potential(or more). 2m plus a few late 2nds is not a gamble, its a smart business move, not a move to improve the team.

I was never to upset by the draft day trades, but this one just sucks.

[Zeitgeister]

You might as well throw in Bill Walker in there, he would have been a good second round pick as well.

[TheFranchise21]

I'm not defending Bassy, just trying to be fair.

I remember how excited a lot of us were that we were going to be picking very early in the 2nd (31st IIRC) in a very deep draft. It was disappointing to see us trade away our very early second for future picks. If we were in extreme rebuilding mode (circa offseason 2007) then yeah I can see the logic behind stockpiling picks, but we were supposed to be an improved team this year, and an early second rounder surely would've helped.

[revprodeji]

pekovic was the right choice but we did mess up the chalmers pick. not because we have bassy and not mario but we should have grabbed a prospect and stuck him in the d league or europe. there is almost not chance that level of talent is available this year.