There's one thing that concerns me...

[NetsForce]

With Harris at the helm the Nets are supposed to be some sort of offensive juggernaut but the Nets are only averaging 99.52 (11th) ppg and shooting 44.1% from the field (24th)...

I'm not sure if Harris and Carter are still the top scoring duo in the league but combined they're averaging: 45.6 ppg... That's 46% of the Nets point...

To make a long story short the Nets suck on defense, and offensively IMO they're below average since they depend so much on these 2 players going 1 on 5 time and time again...

We can all agree that the Nets are outperforming our wildest expectations but going forward how is this team going to win games?

The offensive weapons aren't there and defensively something isn't clicking.

Any thoughts?

[vincecarter4pres]

Fire Frank?

Seriously, I am too tired right now to write a novel.

[S.I.C. GM]

Netforce it is very simple. Unfortunately people arent going to like this.

1- Frank's zone defense isnt helping us. Harris and VC are realing too much on the help in the back. And the zone hasnt worked because Frank doesnt know when to use it. How can u use the Zone when Allen, House and Veal are on the court at the same time Of course they are going to light u up. If the reasoning is because of the F/C, this isnt going help us in the long run. The F/C are going to have to learn to MAN UP. Lopez and Yi are going to have to learn to defend people in their positions. The sooner they learn the better it is for the Team.

2- Now on the offense, Unfortunately for us, Frank in training camp worked on this Dribble Drive Offense. At the time it seemed logical, but looking at the make up of the team, it is a waste of Lopez and Yi's talents and CDR hasnt benefited from it either.

The offense has to change. Though I want it to change now, it would probably mean losing some games. This offense should now be about Lopez then Harris. With Lopez in the post and Harris, VC, Simmons, Hayes, Dooling, Anderson, and Yi (shooters), the Nets would be an offensive Juggernault. I'm The Juaggernault, Bitch!!!!!! Lopez needs to work on passing from the post, but this is how teams win championships. Besides the Pistons, Celtics, Spurs, Lakers and Heat they all had a post presense. Forget the dribble drive, Lopez should be focal point with Harris(if VC still here) the finisher.
IF IT AINT BROKE WHY FIX IT!!!!!!! Like I and many have said, WE HAVE OUR PARKER AND DUNCAN. Why are we wasting time not using it. ANother thing this will help Harris be a better PG. Knowing that Lopez has to touch the ball, Harris wont force up shots.

Please stop with the Lopze PICK AND ROLL.

3- I am not afraid to say it - VC is having a good year, but sorry VC fanboys, he has to go. For the future of this team, we need to install Lopez, Yi and Harris as the Nets future offense.

[G_MoNeY]

I agree with almost everything SIC said.

1) The zone isn't working and when it does, Frank gets too excessive with it.

2) The offense doesn't play to the strengths of the team, overall. It compliments Harris' game, we're a 1 trick pony. Lopez needs more touches, the team needs more motion, we have shooters who can knock down shots but we insist on using the pick and roll too much.

3) Harris has tunnel vision too much. Has anyone else noticed this? At times he just drives to the hoop with his blinders on and doesn't look for the open man. I've seen at least 5 times where backdoor cuts with (Hayes, VC) could result in alley-oops or just simple corner passes to someone other than Bobby Simmons would result in an easier shot. Instead Harris forces up a contested shot and we lose the possession.

4) OK, now where I disagree - surprise! VC has been nothing but spectacular in NJ. Future plans probably will call for him to be traded, but as of now, he should stay. He's the only constant veteran voice that the young players would probably listen to. Not only that, he's taken a backseat to this new offense, when he's more than capable of putting up his 25+ on any given night. We still see VC standing in the corner on many possessions and watching Devin run the show. We're too one dimensional, you take away VC from this team - we're possibly one of the worst teams in the league, easily. From a financial standpoint, I understand where SIC is going - but from a production standpoint, it's still at least a year away. VC never had a dominant big man with him, something Carter has always welcomed with open arms. VC will easily adapt to playing that type of offense. The question is, will Harris?

5) I have a feeling many of the players don't like Frank. It may just be me; but on many occasions I've seen the players tune him out on the sidelines, players have taken minor jabs at him, and the camaraderie they displayed under Hill a few weeks ago is still etched in my brain. The celebration they had on the game winning shot, the way they played with passion that entire 2nd half, etc..

[NetsForce]

My problem with the Dribble Drive Motion Offense is that... It seems kind of gimicky now, and puts a lot of wear and tear on Devin Harris which can't be good for his long-term outlook.

I don't think the offense can or will be that drastically changed in season but I think the Nets need more variation, maybe run a real pick and roll with Yi sometimes so you can get him moving towards the basket, post up Carter a bit more since he's not floating around on the perimeter all the time...

[vincecarter4pres]

SIC, I agree with evey thing you say except Carter.

IF you buy into the "our Duncan and Parker" view, than who is "our Ginobli"?

I am not a Carter "fanboy" just because he is my favorite player.

There are numerous gripes I have had with him his whole career, pre-Nets to the present.
He is not the perfect player by any means and could have been at least as good as Kobe if it were not for injuries and his lez faaire attitude earlier in his career(I know i spelled that wrong).

But that is neither here nor there.

He is still a top 5 swingman in this league and has been, no matter all the unwarranted hate and criticism he has and still recieves.

It is pretty obvious it is your absolute hate for the guy that shines through when you get to the points about Carter and your views on trading him.

You have self admittedly hated Carter from the beginning, it is no secret, just the way I hate Kobe.

So I am not looking to change your opinion of the guy, but the fact remains as much as I hate Kobe, I have to recognize his talents and accomplishments as well as his flaws and that is one thing you have never and will never do.
You literally turn a blind eye to anything he does well.

If we trade Carter for spare parts and a salary dump, this team will be stuck in the lotto for years to come and no big time FA WILL EVER COME HERE, if we even have an outside shot now.

And I do not say this because so many FA's are salivating to play with a 34 year old VC, I am saying this because without him the young guys aren't going to develop as well or as fast, the team will not make the playoffs this year or next and things will start looking like dysfunctionville all over again.

You cannot just have a bunch of young guys, no matter how talented blossom on their own without a solid veteran presence to help them, UNLESS YOU HAVE AN EXCELLENT DEVELOPING COACH AND A YOUNG LEADER TYPE LIKE BRANDON ROY AND LMA.

Najera and Devin are certainly not going to cut it, sorry.

[S.I.C. GM]

Who is going to be Ginobli?

How did Ginobli get to the Spurs? or Though Yi isnt the hustle player Ginobli is but he will fill a Third option role.

The problem I have here is that as long as we have VC Frank will always defer the offense towards the Gs. Yeah VC is the best player on this team, but our future is Harris, Lopez and Maybe Yi.

A VC trade would force Frank to establish Lopez as the second option eventually to become the first.

So with VC (hopefully FRANK) gone:
Lopez becomes the First Option
Harris becomes the Second Option. If he is smart and wants to be a better player or PG, he should make Yi and Lopez better by directing them and PASSING THE BALL. Then he becomes Third Option. Less pressure for him.
Yi becomes Third Option or Second
Draft SG that can Defend and Shoot
Draft SF that can Shoot and Defend
If Frank gone, Boone, Anderson, CDR and Maybe SW gets more playing time.

This has nothing to do with the my dislike of VC. This has to do with the Future of the NETS.

[Preludepunk27]

I'm interested in moving Vince. But I'm not moving him for a straight salary dump or a meaningless deal. I'd rather go with a nucleus of Harris, Brook, Yi and an aging Vince if that is the case. Until Vince shows signs of his age and his stats start declining significantly, I'm only going to move him if we receive someone in return who can be a cornerstone of our future with the other 3 guys I mentioned. If not, I'm fine with staying the course we're on.

Honestly, sometimes I wish our record was much worse. Because we're around .500, which puts us in the playoffs, people assume we could make a move and become wannabe contenders again. I think this is why people want to move Vince. See if we can rape a team out west who needs a guy like Vince and we get back a great player in return. We're still rebuilding and finding out way. The fact we're .500 is amazing to me, but you can still be "rebuilding" and floating around .500 which people don't realize. Even if you dislike him, Vince is still the glue guy of this team. Devin is the near star and Yi and Brook are our up-and-coming. We still need that glue guy which, for now, is Vince and you can tell he actually enjoys that spot at this point in his career.

I'm rambling, but Vince is very important to this team right now. I'm not going to think about moving him at all this season unless we get a guy who is a glue guy who will take us to another level and attracts a big time free agent in 2010. My thoughts may change next season, but I have absolutely no problems with Vince or the way the team is going as of today.

[lurkingobeiscity]

Don't tell Nets fans but this team really just isn't all that good. 500 is a surprise to almost everyone. That should tell you something.

The defense tends to be good or bad along with the defensive performance of the young bigs. Also Harris and Carter are somewhat inconsistent given how much they are used offensively. So overall, to improve the defense the team needs more experience, a more versatile offense, and a replacement for Bobby Simmons.

[aussienet]

From what i've seen and it has been limited, is that the zone that frank uses is mostly a two three zone. Surely a three two would be more effective at guarding the perimeter. (i'll gladly stand corrected if i'm wrong) So Zone isn't that much of an issue perhaps which zone is.

Anyway's, the ball really needs to go thru Lopez more. I think his #'s are 14 9 3 in the last six or so games. Very good for a rookie big man who is not the focal point. I like Mr Anderson at the four for now cos of his hustle. We will see more of those numbers (C's game) than the thunders. I mentioned in a thread last year that i thought VC was fools gold. I have lightened my stance on that a little BUT if he is gonna be our 'GLUE' guy then he needs to show more veteran leadership on the court. He defers too much. VC needs to be able to say the young guy's. "hey i've shown you where to be on offence i let you get your touches, your looks now its the last quarter let me show you how to win a ball game" Yes I'll admit that he has won games of his own bat. but it needs to be consistant. As for DH i think he is trying too hard. He clearly isn't 100% In fact 95% of all hammy strains need a minimum of 21 days recovery thats three weeks people not three games!!! I say shut him down for three weeks. Get it 100% right.
My new line up
VC
Hayes
Simmons (by default, the two greates words in the english language de-fault, de-fault)
Anderson
Lopez

Second unit
Dooling
CDR
najearo/hassell
Swift
Boone

ILR
Harris
Ager
YI

D leaugue
SWILL

Management have screwed up by not having a 3rd pg on its roster and DH is suffering for it so i think a couple of ten days for a 3rd pg is def an option.

The jury is still out on YI. (IMHO)

Now i'm rambling, Please excuse the rambling's of an old beat up aussie still standing proud (and lonely down here) for the Nets.

[halfHAVOC]

well moving bobby simmons would be a start.

[lurkingobeiscity]

well moving bobby simmons would be a start.

This is true. At least put Hayes in over him during crunch time so we don't have to watch Simmons get blown by for a game winner again.

[buddy23]

trade sean williams for someone to bring some energy off the bench, a la nate robinson.

ps. aussienet, i live in queensland... i never thought that there was ever another net fan in australia lol.

[jerseyjac]

With Harris at the helm the Nets are supposed to be some sort of offensive juggernaut but the Nets are only averaging 99.52 (11th) ppg and shooting 44.1% from the field (24th)...

I'm not sure if Harris and Carter are still the top scoring duo in the league but combined they're averaging: 45.6 ppg... That's 46% of the Nets point...

To make a long story short the Nets suck on defense, and offensively IMO they're below average since they depend so much on these 2 players going 1 on 5 time and time again...

We can all agree that the Nets are outperforming our wildest expectations but going forward how is this team going to win games?

The offensive weapons aren't there and defensively something isn't clicking.

Any thoughts?

Bottom line, we have a pretty good chance of winning if the Nets score over 100pts and hold teams under 100...

Its not a secret and I just checked it (Bird said it during the Portland game) the Nets are 12 -4 when scoring over 100pts...

My answer for the immediate future is Lopez...lets explore this option further, w/ Yi out and Vince
maybe showing some wear, its time...

Change our head coach, and you'll see things change...fast...just got get the right guy in there...I dunno, he irks me overall...same old crap...I Just dont think the Nets front office have any intentions of doing so...(if anyone has heard differently please post...)

We're an avg team...some nights we look like we can play w. the top 25% in this league...more than anything, our defense (including our strategy) really kills this team...

[jerseyjac]

...and to be honest SIC, I really dont think we have VC fan boys, as far as the real Nets fans around here...obviously there some of us who are more of a Carter fan than others...

this is coming from the biggest VC fan there is:

I agree with almost everything SIC said.

1) The zone isn't working and when it does, Frank gets too excessive with it.

2) The offense doesn't play to the strengths of the team, overall. It compliments Harris' game, we're a 1 trick pony. Lopez needs more touches, the team needs more motion, we have shooters who can knock down shots but we insist on using the pick and roll too much.

3) Harris has tunnel vision too much. Has anyone else noticed this? At times he just drives to the hoop with his blinders on and doesn't look for the open man. I've seen at least 5 times where backdoor cuts with (Hayes, VC) could result in alley-oops or just simple corner passes to someone other than Bobby Simmons would result in an easier shot. Instead Harris forces up a contested shot and we lose the possession.

4) OK, now where I disagree - surprise! VC has been nothing but spectacular in NJ. Future plans probably will call for him to be traded, but as of now, he should stay. He's the only constant veteran voice that the young players would probably listen to. Not only that, he's taken a backseat to this new offense, when he's more than capable of putting up his 25+ on any given night. We still see VC standing in the corner on many possessions and watching Devin run the show. We're too one dimensional, you take away VC from this team - we're possibly one of the worst teams in the league, easily. From a financial standpoint, I understand where SIC is going - but from a production standpoint, it's still at least a year away. VC never had a dominant big man with him, something Carter has always welcomed with open arms. VC will easily adapt to playing that type of offense. The question is, will Harris?

5) I have a feeling many of the players don't like Frank. It may just be me; but on many occasions I've seen the players tune him out on the sidelines, players have taken minor jabs at him, and the camaraderie they displayed under Hill a few weeks ago is still etched in my brain. The celebration they had on the game winning shot, the way they played with passion that entire 2nd half, etc..

well said G...

#1: fact
#2: I agree...
#3: I definitely see this...he misses Lopez a lot moving to the basket...
#4: A lot truth to what you said about VC, but if the right trade came along, where we're just not moving him to move him, you make the trade...right now I'm keeping Vince w/ not seeing any substantial trades in our sights...there is more value to a player of his caliber, even when his shot is off...he brings so much to the table...(anyone catch the injury state during Michele's interview)...I think this year is what you can expect from Vince down the road, just a little slower, and in less dosages as far as playing time...he doesnt hurt this team at all, he has let Devin become Devin...he can adapt to any offense and he's become a nice veteran leader...you just dont throw this type of player away...At one time I felt RJ was going to be the better player, w/ half of a season in the books, I can say we made the right decision...But again, if the right trade came along, for the right player, you pull the trigger...Moving Vince so others can play more minutes is the wrong philosophy...Vince loses minutes when Vince cant handle the minutes played or someone can contribute more...
#5: Its no secret, Opie is respected, but I dont think anyone feels he's a player's coach or the coach of the future...I wouldnt say his days are numbered yet, because there has not been any real notice from the front office (correct me of I'm wrong), but we all know, players included, this team could have more than a couple more Ws if we had someone else at head coach...

[jerseyjac]

Netforce it is very simple. Unfortunately people arent going to like this.

1- Frank's zone defense isnt helping us. Harris and VC are realing too much on the help in the back. And the zone hasnt worked because Frank doesnt know when to use it. How can u use the Zone when Allen, House and Veal are on the court at the same time Of course they are going to light u up. If the reasoning is because of the F/C, this isnt going help us in the long run. The F/C are going to have to learn to MAN UP. Lopez and Yi are going to have to learn to defend people in their positions. The sooner they learn the better it is for the Team.

2- Now on the offense, Unfortunately for us, Frank in training camp worked on this Dribble Drive Offense. At the time it seemed logical, but looking at the make up of the team, it is a waste of Lopez and Yi's talents and CDR hasnt benefited from it either.

The offense has to change. Though I want it to change now, it would probably mean losing some games. This offense should now be about Lopez then Harris. With Lopez in the post and Harris, VC, Simmons, Hayes, Dooling, Anderson, and Yi (shooters), the Nets would be an offensive Juggernault. I'm The Juaggernault, Bitch!!!!!! Lopez needs to work on passing from the post, but this is how teams win championships. Besides the Pistons, Celtics, Spurs, Lakers and Heat they all had a post presense. Forget the dribble drive, Lopez should be focal point with Harris(if VC still here) the finisher.
IF IT AINT BROKE WHY FIX IT!!!!!!! Like I and many have said, WE HAVE OUR PARKER AND DUNCAN. Why are we wasting time not using it. ANother thing this will help Harris be a better PG. Knowing that Lopez has to touch the ball, Harris wont force up shots.

Please stop with the Lopze PICK AND ROLL.

3- I am not afraid to say it - VC is having a good year, but sorry VC fanboys, he has to go. For the future of this team, we need to install Lopez, Yi and Harris as the Nets future offense.

SIC, I definitely feel you as far as your goal...and I agree with a lot of the above and wanted to give you the respect you deserve as far as a reply and not going through G's post...

#1: Man the hell up!!!! I agree 100% Lopez and Yi need to defend their positions and beyond NOW...

#2: I still like the dribble drive offense...it works, but we need to start mixing it up with a low post offense through Brook...I'm all for the Brook movement...there us out there who feel he can be a top 10 center in this league, possbile allstar and beyond...I'm not here to make predictions...I just want to see us take adavantage of his talents...as Brook shows us more, we to take more from him and push his game...this week or so has been big for Brook, evem w/ some missed shots vs. Boston, he did a lot of good things...the memphis game, followed by the Bucks game where I dont get why we shyed away from him...but then the OKC game which I attended...and in my mind Lopez vs. Oden, which didnt even become a comparison...Brook does a lot more than Oden...you want an extra 30lbs, I'm taking Brook...(no knock on Oden, they have a lot of weapons in their front court)...

#3:I know your not just saying this cause your hating, you've been pretty damn good this year with your comments, but you just dont trade Vince for the sake of trading him...I'm all ears for those trades that are logical, smart and realistic...Unless the front office truly wants to bail on Vince, for some future 1st rounders and some throw ins...(which I highly doubt not only for his talents, but I hate to say it, but to put some fans in the arena)...this team isnt trading Vince...this is where I'll move my thoughts to trade threads...

[SpeedyG]

Pretty much as what most have said. We don't give away Vince. The guy is far too talented and far too important to this team leadership wise to give him away on a salary dump. Should a deal be available where future SG/SF prospect comes back to us in exchange for Vince (assuming no bad contracts along with that deal), I make the deal, and thank Vince for being a good sport and taking on a leadership role we didn't think he can fulfill after Kidd was shipped out of town.

[jerseyjac]

bump for SIC...

[S.I.C. GM]

Thanks Jac.

It needs to change.

Frank is being stubborn.

1- Now they are calling it a modified Zone with a man to man element. What the F does that mean? Worse thing to happen to the NBA. I hate Zone D. It only works for college because the have a long shot clock and those guys dont like to play D. Another thing about Frank's D. If Hassel is such a Defensive minded guy why hasnt frank used him.
2- Lopez needs to learn how to pass out of the double team. The only way he learns is to post up early in the shot clock. LIke I have said before, there was a nice sequence with Simmons and Lopez. Where they did a perfect two man play. Lopez posted up. Simmons gave him the ball and stayed. The double team came and Lopez passed it back to Simmons for a Three. Why cant Frank do that with Harris, VC, Hayes, Dooling, and even Anderson and when Yi comes back. Then you can do high post plays because Lopez can pass the ball. We have seen it with Yi and Dooling.
3- I agree with everyone. I wouldnt give VC away. Like I have always said, It has to be like the deal Thorn did for Kidd. If there isnt one like that out there, I am not interested.

I am Adding
4- Is it me or are the players not paying attention to Frank during time outs?

[Preludepunk27]

I've played Man with a modified zone element before. You basically have an area on the court that is "your area" and you defend whoever is there. It's set up to look like a 1-2-2 or a 2-1-2. The thing is EVERYONE on the court has to be vocal and you're calling switches and flashes constantly. You don't play an entire game like this though. It's something you throw in every few possessions (my team used to do it after every missed shot and do full/halfcourt man after every make). It's basically a way to give everyone a breather instead of running players ragged chasing guys like Rip around the court. I'll tell you right now that it only works with mechanical teams like the Mavericks that run ISO all day long. Quick, smart, athletic teams pick it apart in 2 seconds once the figure out what you're playing.

I think Brook will learn that skill eventually. As great as he is right now, we do have to remember this kid isn't of legal drinking age if I'm not mistaken. I'm pretty patient with our young kids though. It's our vets/stars who need to be picking up the slack because there are very few young players that you can consider consistant day in day out. But I agree, it's a skill he needs to work on.