What is Ray Allen worth?

Jesus Juice · Post #1 » by **Jesus Juice** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:20 pm

My boss and I were having a discussion about Ray Allen's worth around the league. I am under the impression that the celtics, if they don't win it all this year, should blow it up and start building for the future. The first to go is Ray Allen, you guys aquired him for a 5th overall pick, he expires when the big FA class is available. At this point your big 3 is aging and in three years if nothing changes you will be back in the same position you were in at the end of 2007, a back end of prime PP34 and some rooks who are learning.

With that said What do you think Jesus's value is on the market, what can you fetch to help jumpstart the rebuilding while remaining competitve right now?

Andrew McCeltic · Post #2 » by **Andrew McCeltic** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:31 pm

Assuming that Ray doesn't turn into an old guard overnight, his value's going to peak about a year from now- he'll be a capable, savvy veteran, likely past his all-star prime but still able to contribute- and he'll have a 20 million dollar expiring contract. With so many teams chasing Lebron/Bosh/Wade, we can either raid the rosters of franchises cutting payroll. Ideally, Ray would get a buyout, return to Boston for the minimum, and re-up for 2-4 years at MLE money.

If Ainge lucks out & plays it right, we'll reload next season rather than rebuild.

DieselCeltic · Post #3 » by **DieselCeltic** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:34 pm

Let's get Rip Hamilton for Ray Allen ?

da_truth34 · Post #4 » by **da_truth34** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:41 pm

Ray Allens worth a lot to this team

Jesus Juice · Post #5 » by **Jesus Juice** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:54 pm

He might be worth alot to your team, but Ideally you want to reload before you become awful. Do you really think the celtics are going to be able to compete with Cleveland and the Magic with the aging roster you have now. Believe me I think Ray Allen is important to your team chemistry, but as a good GM, you have to look into the future, ray allen for a first rounder and decent contract shooting guard is something you have to look at, gives you cap space and a chance to rebuild while still be 5-8th seed.

celticfan42487 · Post #6 » by **celticfan42487** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 6:06 pm

It isn't that great.

you can't build around Ray.

Any team wanting him is wanting him as a final piece and ideally either a 3rd option, or as apart of a team that already runs a lot of screens for one of it's stars.

There is no team where he will be more valued then in BOS. And BOS won't use him as a cap dump on the off chance that we could still hit the jackpot again with him on the team.

The only way BOS trades him is a team looking for that capspace badly enough that they are willing to trade a very good roleplayer for him that we feel will extend our window a year or two or even becomes apart of a rebuilding process... we have no young talent on this team for rebuilding though so that will be hard.

Selling Ray will be hard though because the 2010 crowd will want to sell a winner to the free agents.. but not with a main cog that is on it's expiration date. The prized free agents are likely to go where they can win and win for a long time. Maxs will be easy to find that year.

Basically Ray's expiring can net young assets for rebuilding. But the assets are unlikely to extend the window for Pierce and KG to win another ring. And they will likely not fill Ray's role which will destroy chemistry... it's extremely difficult to find good enough players to cover Rondo's deficiencies on offense... so there will be options, but none of them will really fit with BOS.

And it isn't like we'll be looking for young 3rd options to rebuild on. Once the big three are gone, we're left with two players worthy of starting in this league in Rondo and Perk and neither of them are even all-star calbier. Rondo may one day be if he goes beyond what he should develop into. Not banking on that though.

klemen4 · Post #7 » by **klemen4** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 6:15 pm

I think Ray will not be traded in one years time...

The only formula to trade him is
Allen for borderline allstar+good players with long contracts

And basically there are not a lot of option around (You could go with Vince Carter, but I would pas)

I think Ray will resign for about 6-8 mio for another 3 years...

Jesus Juice · Post #8 » by **Jesus Juice** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 6:54 pm

klemen4 wrote:I think Ray will not be traded in one years time...

The only formula to trade him is
Allen for borderline allstar+good players with long contracts

And basically there are not a lot of option around (You could go with Vince Carter, but I would pas)

I think Ray will resign for about 6-8 mio for another 3 years...

Ainge would be stupid to think that the current the formula is going to net you a chip 3 years from now. With the current situation of the NBA, Ray will have value in 2010, if the celts do what you proposed your talking about a 38 year old SG, I think you can get something that helps rebuild cause believe it or not, you are going to have to sooner than you think...

cfan79 · Post #9 » by **cfan79** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 7:13 pm

I wouldn't trade Ray. I think he is going to be a valuable piece for us for a long time. Shooters can play until they're 40 unless seriously injured.

Jesus Juice · Post #10 » by **Jesus Juice** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:09 pm

cfan79 wrote:I wouldn't trade Ray. I think he is going to be a valuable piece for us for a long time. Shooters can play until they're 40 unless seriously injured.

Brent barry plays ten mins a game, Steve kerr came in for like 6 mins, reggie miller played 30 mins towards the end of his career but is production fell off from 18 points to 10 and 12. So your going to pay ray allen 6-8 mill for that production, you can get that from a rookie... hell an undrafted rookie Morrows gets 9 points a game

Circus Bear · Post #11 » by **Circus Bear** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:20 pm

Danny Ainge needs to consider trading Ray Allen after this year regardless if they win or not. He will be an expiring contract, and while the Celtics will not be big players in the 2010 MONSTER FA class, they can dump him off for a decent player and a first ruond pick. If that decent player was to then become a free agent they then can sign someone to the mid-level exception. So I agree with you Jesus Juice if they don't try to trade him then they are delisounal if they don't expect any production fall off. In the NBA it is not common to do what the Celtics did and acquire two stars to accompany the one they had via trade. So they don't have revert back once two of the three are indeed gone, they need to start thinking about the future and Ray Allen will be the easiest to part with (14mil expiriing right before 2010 FA class). I am not saying to give him away get the value, and start restocking right away thats how all the teams do it that are good for a long time (i.e. Spurs, Lakers, Detroit)

GreenGrizz · Post #12 » by **GreenGrizz** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:27 pm

Everyone is probaby after Ray's expiring contract for 2010. Maybe we should take advantage of that. I really don't think Lebron or Bosh is coming to Boston. The real question is what we really can get from Ray's trade value?

greenbeans · Post #13 » by **greenbeans** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:50 pm

Not that I'm hoping for Ray to be traded, but I think Danny will definitely put in some calls this summer to gauge his value, it's the smart thing to do.
I'd imagine he has an idea of the teams that are within earshot of capspace in 2010.
The only realistic package I see us getting back is a bad, long contract coupled with a young stud or two on rookie deals, just an example Eddy Curry with some combo of Wilson Chandler, David Lee or Nate Robinson

Jesus Juice · Post #14 » by **Jesus Juice** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:02 pm

^^^

the money doesn't work besides, the Knicks wont part with Wilson to get an aging Allen regardless of the cap sitaution they could get Brad miller for less and won't have to deal any young pieces, besides curry doesn't fit well with you guys.

greenbeans · Post #15 » by **greenbeans** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:07 pm

That's why I said "just an example".....
But USUALLY, Eddy Curry does fit well with guys, allegedly.

Jesus Juice · Post #16 » by **Jesus Juice** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:36 pm

curry doesn't fit in anything

greenbeans · Post #17 » by **greenbeans** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:42 pm

Dave says hi

Jammer · Post #18 » by **Jammer** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:29 am

Kevin Garnett.

If you recall, KG refused to:

1. Join the Celtics
2. Negotiate (with Boston) an extension to his opt out year in 2008.

The Celtics traded for Ray Allen, and

then KG agreed to:

1. Go to Boston
2. Eliminate his 2008 opt out
3. Add three more seasons thru 2011 season with no opt outs.

Jesus Juice · Post #19 » by **Jesus Juice** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:59 am

I understand KG wanted Ray, but what you don't understand is....

This isn't 26 year old garnett 25 year old Pierce, or a 29 year old Ray allen, we are talking about a 33 year old ray allen, a 32 year old garnett, and a 31 year old Paul Pierce. Production from those three will drop soon, we are talking about guys about to be on the back side of their prime. In three years we are talking aobut 35, 36, and 34. Now I believe you guys will be competitive three years from now with that group, but we are talking 6-8 seed. If you Flip Ray Allen for a up and coming player before his age shows, I believe there will not be that much of a drop off... If you get a pick in the deal we are talking about retooling...preparing for the time when KG and PP are not as dominate.

look at the Knicks, they drafted poorly during the Ewing era, they didn't take the time to insure that the team will continue to be competitive after the franchise player was gone, and now they have suffered for 7 years just to get something that is watchable. They traded ewing for an alcholic Vin Baker cause ewing was already declining. Imagine watching your team with rondo Powe and perkins as your main pieces after after your big three is old,

floyd · Post #20 » by **floyd** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:20 am

We've got no idea what you're talking about. We didn't live through 2 decades of mediocrity / cellar dwelling after the original big 3 got old.

What kind of deal are you talking about? What are we gonna get for Ray that helps us win while Pierce and KG are still dominating and in the future? Ain't happening. You reach for those rings while they're in reach because a real shot doesn't come that often no matter what the hell you do.