Revisiting Rodney Carney

[TheFranchise21]

When we made the TPE trade there was debate if the first rounder was the stud, or if Rodney Carney was the key to the trade. (the cash was a throw-in and Booth was hardly that)

The first rounder has become a keeper. Needs some help from the Jazz and Knicks, but since it will likely be mid-first rounder it is a long term key or trade piece.

But Rodney Carney got limited burn and was buried at the end of the bench.

How would the dynamic of this team changed if Rodney Carney would have been productive earlier? If he could have emerged sooner as a 10ppg bench player for us?

Better yet, why has he blown up? Why did the first rounder become the forgotten one, and Rodney Carney blown up? Was it Wittman?



In all seriousness, I think Carney is slowly becoming exactly what we hoped for out of Green. Only this time around, the reward is much sweeter since we did not have the same expectations for Rodney as we did for Gerald. He's almost a clone of Green only he's faster and knows how to play basketball. He's got the crazy ups and sweet three-pointer.

[theGreatRC]

LOL, very nice thread, franchise21 is becoming one of my faves on this board.

Anyway, Carney was a player I looked at from the corner in my eye in Philly; I knew what he was capable of, but when I actually watched him, I realized he could be that player we need, which is an above the rim player that is a joy to watch in the open court and can provide a spark offensively(Defensively too). If he can maintain his high flying antics and his consistent three-point shooting(Which Miller is very disappointingly not providing), then he should stay with us and could make Gomes very flexible for us in a trade situation.

In short: All the kid needed was some minutes, and Mchale turned Rodney into a gem by letting him play.

[Baphomet]

I'm definitely a fan of the guy. I think his scoring contributions and energy are some of the key proponents in our recent success. Though Rodney has a few of the same setbacks that Gerald did (relatively low BBIQ), his ability to play solid defense covers a real sore need for us -- plus he doesn't look completely lost out there. I'd very much like to see him resign and develop with us as the rebuilding effort progresses.

[Calinks]

My brother thinks that Carney means bye bye to Brewer.

[big3_8_19_21]

I don't see why we can't have 2 super athletic good-defense-playing wings...I mean they're both skinny, sure, but in a rotation with Gomes, who's a very physically solid 3 (when he plays 3), I think they'll be fine.

Now Carney has only done this for a short burst of games, so we can't let our expectations grow out of control, but he does appear to be that great spark off the bench type player to really get our team going when the games starts to bog down. Good defense and 10 ppg sound like reasonable expectations from him. Obviously he won't keep shooting the 3 at a 50% clip, but I think he could be a good, respectable 3pt shooter in the high 30% range, maybe 37%-38% or so. He's getting ready to break the 40% barrier with one more 3pt shooting night like he's been having.

[4ho5ive]

No way does Carney mean Brewer is on the outs. Especially if Mac sticks around

I love Carney. Several of us were lobbying for him to get minutes at the beginning of the year. Its funny that Witt gets the bounce and several players just start letting loose and become so much better.

Every time he is in the game with Love i expect a rebound, lob, dunk lol.

He is everything I wanted from McCants. Defense, solid from 3 but doesnt force it if it hurts the team (meaning he is a willing passer) and just all around exciting without an attitude.

[southern wolf]

I know it's too late, but it would be awesome to see Rowdy Roddy Carney in the dunk contest. If he'd gotten this type of playing time all season he might of been a chance, maybe next season. Watching Gerald Green blow out that candle last year was pretty much the highlight of the season.

[revprodeji]

nice pun thread tf21...

I remember when we had green we all thought if he would use his athletic ability to focus on defense and finishing on the break he could be effective. but he, like mccants, thought they were a star.

carney is a role player but he has embraced that role. he still takes a lot of shots that are unwise, but he still tries on def and is a spark off the bench.

I actually think brewer and him will fit each other. other than being athletic and playing hard on def they do not have much in common. hot rod shoots a ton and has nice range. but he has a relatively low bbiq. he has good confidence and I think he is a keeper. brewer has high bbiq much more playmaking ability. he is more than a hustle defender but could be a lockdown guy. I am looking forward to seeing them play together.

gomes is a 3/4 he is very smart. in a small ball set he can play the 4 otherwise he is a smart 3.

miller does not fit and cookie to a large extent. but the fact is we have more young pieces that can help our future.

[Wingman]

I don't see Brewer's high BBIQ.

[shrink]

What is PHI thinking right now, since in the deal McHale negotiated, the Sixers are still paying part of his salary?

We trade cap space. PHI gives us Booth (PHI still pays his full salary) + Carney (PHI partly pays) + protected 1st?

This may turn out to be an even better McHale trade than Blount (3 yr) + Davis for Walker (2 yr) + expirings + Top 14 protected MIA 1st.

McHale's rap as a horrible GM/Trader, I think, is over-stated. He's made some mistakes, but he's made some pretty good deals too. He's been particularly savvy over the last two years, adding youth, adding picks, and cutting tens of millions of dollars for cap space for future free agents all while moving out declining, deadwood vets.

[revprodeji]

yes or no shrink

1.) if marbury does not force a trade is mchale seen as a good gm

or

2.) if brandon does not have a career ending injury is he seen as a good gm.

you could pose both scenarios and ask if kg could have a title here.

[yojimbo]

Maybe it's just me, but I thought most soured on McHale with the Joe Smith fiasco, regardless of how much of it was Taylor's fault. Nobody predicted Starbury being that much of a wanker, and getting Brandon out of that mess was quite a save, despite all the later sniping about him as 'Stop & Pop'. But losing all those picks over Joe Smith of all people, and the sheer idiocy of how they got caught were hard to take.

The loss of picks + KG's enormous salary put the team in a position where McHale had to take some risks. Some of those risks worked for a while, but ultimately blew up on him and made him look stupider.

[shrink]

yes or no shrink

1.) if marbury does not force a trade is mchale seen as a good gm

or

2.) if brandon does not have a career ending injury is he seen as a good gm.

you could pose both scenarios and ask if kg could have a title here.

I say "yes," and you might include "3) Cassell doesn't defect."

In my view, the job of the GM is to put together a team that can win. These teams DID win, and some of them were over 50 wins, if I recall. However, these guys weren't around during the play-offs (I'm projecting a re-signed Marbury here). Those were legit teams. McHale also showed he can put the right role players around those stars. However, KG's contract was a killer, so when the #2 guy gets good money too, not much is left when #2 goes down. I guess I can't just assume more play-off success, but by what we saw in the regular season, I think its highly likely we would have gone farther in the play-offs.

[karch34]

I actually think brewer and him will fit each other. other than being athletic and playing hard on def they do not have much in common. hot rod shoots a ton and has nice range. but he has a relatively low bbiq. he has good confidence and I think he is a keeper. brewer has high bbiq much more playmaking ability. he is more than a hustle defender but could be a lockdown guy. I am looking forward to seeing them play together.

gomes is a 3/4 he is very smart. in a small ball set he can play the 4 otherwise he is a smart 3.

miller does not fit and cookie to a large extent. but the fact is we have more young pieces that can help our future.

Agreed. I don't think Brewer or anyone other than Miller is for sure gone by next year. I think a lot depends on how the draft and the rest of the offseason shakes out before even considering moving guys, even if we re-sign Carney...which I hope we do.

[TrentTuckerForever]

I for one thought we needed more proof that shrink is actually McHale, so I like the hijack...

I'm definitely a fan of the guy. I think his scoring contributions and energy are some of the key proponents in our recent success. Though Rodney has a few of the same setbacks that Gerald did (relatively low BBIQ), his ability to play solid defense covers a real sore need for us -- plus he doesn't look completely lost out there. I'd very much like to see him resign and develop with us as the rebuilding effort progresses.

I'm not sure Carney lacks IQ. I think he's lacked consistency... it's that old chicken-or-egg argument: does more PT create consistency, or does a player become more consistent, and therefore play more?

Bottom line is that he's played better with a defined role - he fits well with this team as a shooter and defender, and should be part of the Wolves' plans next year regardless of Brewer's recovery. And we got him for nothing, nice work shri... I mean McHale.

[mandurugo]

Rodney Carney has been the most fun to watch all year, it's been a long time since a wolves player had this type of game. It's been nice to see the team playing better, but he's been what keeps me tuning in. I'm not so sure why people say he has a low bbiq though - he seems to know what he's doing out there. If he's not shooting he passes the ball quickly (in contrast to McCants who is a ball movement killer) and his defense is generally sound. I guess I see part of the argument as if you are so athletic but not a starter there must be a reason, thus we get to low bbiq? Could someone educate me on this?

[Dewey]

When Miller starts hitting his shot, he'll fit here or anywhere else.

McHale likes Brewer ... both Carney and Brewer are highly likely.

[Worm Guts]

yes or no shrink

1.) if marbury does not force a trade is mchale seen as a good gm

or

2.) if brandon does not have a career ending injury is he seen as a good gm.

you could pose both scenarios and ask if kg could have a title here.

I don't understand number #2. Brandon's injury directly led to the acquisitions of Cassell and Sprewell and the Wolves best season under McHale. Brandon had been to the playoffs twice with the Wolves and they had never made it past the first round. Why do you think the injury had a negative impact?

[younggunsmn]

What is PHI thinking right now, since in the deal McHale negotiated, the Sixers are still paying part of his salary?

We trade cap space. PHI gives us Booth (PHI still pays his full salary) + Carney (PHI partly pays) + protected 1st?

This may turn out to be an even better McHale trade than Blount (3 yr) + Davis for Walker (2 yr) + expirings + Top 14 protected MIA 1st.

McHale's rap as a horrible GM/Trader, I think, is over-stated. He's made some mistakes, but he's made some pretty good deals too. He's been particularly savvy over the last two years, adding youth, adding picks, and cutting tens of millions of dollars for cap space for future free agents all while moving out declining, deadwood vets.

Technically, Philadelphia sent us an undisclosed amount of cash to pay most of their salaries, since paying the salary of a player you trade violates the CBA.

You're forgetting one thing, all those moves over the past 2 years were made under the "rectangle of authority", with Jim Stack answering the phones and negotiating contracts. Stack had credibility with other GM's McHale simply didn't after getting fleeced for years. The last two deals he made before stack was brought in were the jaric and wally deals, where he threw in 1st rounders and took on those horrible contracts you gloat about him unloading. Post-Marbury and Pre-KG trade (when he had complete control) his record of trades, draft picks, free agents, and re-signings was downright atrocious. We're talking 6-7 years where he didn't do a single thing right outside of picking up a couple guys off waivers and trading for 2 guys who contributed for exactly one good season before becoming cancers and distractions (and cassell broke down in the playoffs), which led to him firing the best coach this franchise has ever had. That's millen-esque ineptitude.
That's even omitting the Joe Smith debacle.

He could've had Cassell in the Marbury trade. we all knew at the time that brandon was an injury-prone player.
I don't think even if Marbury stayed we would've won anything more. Maybe a couple 1st round series but certainly no further. He put up better stats after he left, but he's been a cancer and a loser everywhere else he went. The team around them would've been incredibly limited for years with their 2 salaries eating up most of the payroll.
Cassell and Sprewell only worked because KG was unbelieveably great that year and freddy was the glue to that team.
UGH.

Carney will be a UFA next summer. His option (which we declined) was for 2.5 mil. Maybe we can get him for that.

Carney's shooting was a big reason he didn't get much run in philly. The last 4 games have been nice, but the 5 games previous to that he was 0-10 from 3. His jumper just doesn't look smooth or consistent. I love his energy and defense though, he's definitely been a good role player. Him and brewer on the wings on d protecting a lead would be awesome. Brewer needs to get stronger, which he should be able to do as he gets older. Personally I couldn't put on weight no matter how I tried until I hit my mid-twenties, brewer I think is the same way.

I think the future of the team right now hinges on if Foye can consistently become that 20ppg scorer and clutch player he's shown flashes of.

[TheFranchise21]

What is PHI thinking right now, since in the deal McHale negotiated, the Sixers are still paying part of his salary?

We trade cap space. PHI gives us Booth (PHI still pays his full salary) + Carney (PHI partly pays) + protected 1st?

This may turn out to be an even better McHale trade than Blount (3 yr) + Davis for Walker (2 yr) + expirings + Top 14 protected MIA 1st.

McHale's rap as a horrible GM/Trader, I think, is over-stated. He's made some mistakes, but he's made some pretty good deals too. He's been particularly savvy over the last two years, adding youth, adding picks, and cutting tens of millions of dollars for cap space for future free agents all while moving out declining, deadwood vets.

With the way Brand has been playing, I'm sure they kind of regret it. He was coming off a rehab year and only played 8 games. It's crazy to think Philly had a playoff team last year W/O Brand. If they hadn't signed Brand this year, they would've had crazy money to throw at Boozer this summer or someone else.