Am I the only one who wants Josh Smith outta here?

[ATL DirtyBird]

Im getting sick of watching this immature goofy 23 yr old screw up this team. I love his athletisicm at times but he needs to learn how to control it. His mid range has seemed to improve a little bit but he still takes way to many jumpers. I think Marvin is much better than him already and id rather focus on him and getting him better than someone who is taking way to long to get better and has probably degressed. He cant block a shot anymore and his rebounding has declined. What do yall think!?

[parson]

As I've said before, probably only Marvelous's mother is a bigger fan than I am of Marvin Williams. That said, he's not better than Josh Smith. Smoove doesn't have the skills that Marvelous has, but he has the fire to be one of the greats. Marvin's lack of fire is his biggest problem. Smoove's fire is rare; only a handfull of NBA players show fire as hot.

You don't trade a 23-year old for being "immature." You teach him to grow up.

You wanna trade Smoove for Bynum? Oden? As part of a package for Dwight Howard? Then I'm all ears. But it doesn't make sense to trade a guy who could become a star for anyone else.

[JoshB914]

It's a little early for this. Josh is hurt right now and just signed a big contract with us. Offensively, he looks as good as ever. And based on his history as a defender, you have to believe his shot blocking ability will return when his ankle is back to 100%.

The reason we are losing right now is because Joe is in a major slump. As always no one seems to want to point that out.

[Skyhawk1]

You guys know what I think about Smith. I would've traded him a while ago and still think we got to either play him at 3( I know he's got no perimeter game, but at the 4 he's killing us) or get rid of him. I never thought he was a great defender and I still think the same. Up to last year he could block shots, now he's a TO machine, can't rebound to save his life and we all know about his jump shot and FT shooting. I mean, the more I watch him, the less I like his game...

[ATL DirtyBird]

Ive always known that his potential is something scary and thats undeniable but at this point he hasnt matured much at all and I know we all beleive that his ankle must not be 100% bc of his porous defense. I have a Josh Smith jersey and am a huge fan but from a team perspective how long do we wait for him to become a man on the court. If he could learn how to dribble and control his athleticism a little more he would be an all star no doubt. OK and sure his offense looks a little better but ive never seen someone try to look like a point guard and look so bad at it. Hes a turnover machine and it does nothing but hurt us. Its hard to be more patient with the Hawks considering how long weve all waited for them to return to respectibilty. After the flashes of greatness this team has shown it has made me more critical of their play.

[Adobozz]

Smoove is supposed to be our best defender, best rebounder and bring the energy to the team. So far this season all Smoove cares about is points. He is being very selfish because he needs to limit his offensive game and step it up on defense for us to be a contender. I don't like when he scores 25 points and has 3 rebounds and 1 block. That is Eddy Curry like. I want to see more 12 points 10 rebounds and 4 block games which is easy for him.

Either he doesn't understand this or he does, but doesn't wanna do what's good for the team. I mean we have Joe, Bibby, Marvin and Horford who are all better shooters than him, but he shoots more than most of them.

Also when Smoove is left open for a shot he think it's a defensive breakdown, but it's a **** strategy.

[NashtyNas]

I dont get it...

[Hood President]

I dont get it...

do like im bout to do and not give a damn about this topic because i know it will be forgotten by the middle of february.

[raleigh]

I dont get it...

Best post EVER.

What's with the debbie downers???

[NDaATL]

The reason we are losing right now is because Joe is in a major slump. As always no one seems to want to point that out.

Yeah, JJ has really played like crap recently. I am a huge JJ fan but I can admit that his terrible play is the biggest reason we've been losing.

Smith's defense is still tops in the league by any objective measure, and in terms of +/-, he's just not blocking as many shots because he's on a sore ankle. Sprained ankles take FOREVER to get 100%, I know because I've sprained mine at least 5 times. Even after you can play, it still takes a few months to get fully healthy. It stays sore and you subconsciously think about it. Regardless, Smith's FG% is at a career high and his turnovers are down. I wouldn't be too worried yet. And, as much as it sucks to watch Smith take jumpers, his eFG% on jumpers has increased from 30% last year to almost 36% this season so it's definitely improved.

Just because he takes some dumb shots doesn't mean he isn't a CRUCIAL part of our teams success.

[NDaATL]

I think Marvin is much better than him already

I don't like to criticize, but this is just dumb. What can Marvin do better than Smith other than shoot?

Marvin has got to be the worst finisher inside for a 6'9 athletic guy I've ever seen. He always gets swatted. He has terrible handles, he can't create his own shot, he can't pass. He's nowhere near the defender Smith is.

The problem is Woodson. He publically said in an interview on Hawks live after a Hawks loss that they weren't going to tell Smith to stop shooting threes. That's the problem. Smith should never even have the ball outside the 3pt line because he's useless there. He should watch some tape of Amare and play that way. Catching the ball 4+ feet inside the arc would help him tremendously, his defender would actually have to guard him, he could get to the rim quicker, and he'd be in a better position for offensive rebounds. Not to mention he'd be shooting jumpers up to 5 feet closer. If he's closer to the basket, the defender has to step out and guard him, making it much easier to drive past his man. He needs a coach to tell him what he can and can't do, because he's proven that given the freedom he won't hesitate to take long jumpers. That's a coaches JOB, to put players in the best position to succeed and Woodson hasn't done that at all.

[ATL DirtyBird]

I think Marvin is much better than him already

I don't like to criticize, but this is just dumb. What can Marvin do better than Smith other than shoot?

Marvin has got to be the worst finisher inside for a 6'9 athletic guy I've ever seen. He always gets swatted. He has terrible handles, he can't create his own shot, he can't pass. He's nowhere near the defender Smith is.

Its the fact that Marvin gets his 14-16 points a game on high quality shots most of the time. Smith takes low percentage jumpshots and out of control layups. Smith cant stay with any 3 or mobile 4 outside the paint, cuz he just backs away until there in the paint and have scored. This topic wont go away bc Smoove isnt going to mature in a matter of weeks. And when his ankle heals fully I honeslty dont think he will be that much better. Well see in the coming months but as long as Josh is trying to be Allen Iverson this team will never be a contender.

This forum seems to be split down the middle on this topic.!

[NDaATL]

Its the fact that Marvin gets his 14-16 points a game on high quality shots most of the time. Smith takes low percentage jumpshots and out of control layups.

So, Marvin gets his points on high quality shots yet shoots a lower percentage than Smith? There is a reason Marvin doesn't get more opportunities, it's because he's not good enough and it's obvious if you watch him when he DOES get iso opportunities, which is at least 3-4 times a game.

Smith cant stay with any 3 or mobile 4 outside the paint, cuz he just backs away until there in the paint and have scored.

Yet he is still a top 20 defender in the NBA and our best defender by far. We are a top 10 defense with him in the lineup and when he was out we were one of the 10 worst defenses in the league.

You clearly have an agenda and no evidence to back up your assertions.

[tbhawksfan]

Josh is one of those bi-polar type players; he is so good at some things and so bad at some things. That's the reason for the split in opinion. We need to stop over-analyzing the individual players and try to find a consensus on what to do to make the team better.

New coach ?

Trade ?

Status quo ?

Out of the core players which fit best and which could be moved to balance the team ?

Core: JJ, Horford, Smoove, Bibby, Marvin, Law ?

[killbuckner]

I was open to trading Josh Smith last year because I thought he was going to get a ridiculous contract from someone trying to pry him loose as an UFA. even during hte offseason it looked likely that the Sixers then the Clippers would end up making that offer but it never happened and Smith got signed to a reasonable contract. He has flaws but he is certainly an asset to the team. At that point its just all about what the Hawks could get and whether it would make the team better.

[ATL DirtyBird]

Its the fact that Marvin gets his 14-16 points a game on high quality shots most of the time. Smith takes low percentage jumpshots and out of control layups.

So, Marvin gets his points on high quality shots yet shoots a lower percentage than Smith? There is a reason Marvin doesn't get more opportunities, it's because he's not good enough and it's obvious if you watch him when he DOES get iso opportunities, which is at least 3-4 times a game.

Smith cant stay with any 3 or mobile 4 outside the paint, cuz he just backs away until there in the paint and have scored.

Yet he is still a top 20 defender in the NBA and our best defender by far. We are a top 10 defense with him in the lineup and when he was out we were one of the 10 worst defenses in the league.

You clearly have an agenda and no evidence to back up your assertions.

I dont know about you but when Marvin takes a mid range shot I assume its going in. When Smoove takes mid range shot I expect an airball. I dont know how we can say this team is top 10 defensively, we havent had a healthy team for long enough and ya we started out 6-0 and we all though we were the best when we werent even close. We played a overated Celtic team better than anyone else, and then we play the Magic with all of our pieces except Zaza and we get waxed and they put up 100+. This team has the potential to be top 5 team in the league, but as long as Josh takes the shots he takes we will never be good offensively. ALso as long as Joe wants to be 1-1 champion we wont win. I dont want to argue with you but im just sold on Marvin and am starting to get extremely frustrated with Josh!

[NDaATL]

I dont know about you but when Marvin takes a mid range shot I assume its going in.

My point exactly. Marvin is a better stand still shooter than Smith, that's the only thing he does better. He sucks at driving and can't shoot off the dribble. He's not a passer. He doesn't have great handles. He doesn't post up.

If Marvin was better offensively and Smith was so bad offensively than I would expect Marvin to at least shoot a higher percentage, and he doesn't.

When Smoove takes mid range shot I expect an airball.

You are suffering from a case of tunnel vision. You are ignoring all the great things that Smith does to make this team successful and only focusing on the bad. He's still a very good defender and one of the best PFs in the NBA at finishing inside and points in the paint. He scores inside more than anyone on the team.

I dont want to argue with you but im just sold on Marvin and am starting to get extremely frustrated with Josh!

Please tell me how you are sold on Marvin? If he's so much better and takes much more high quality shots than why does he shoot a WORSE percentage than Smith?

How do you get Marvin more shots? He's not good enough to create on his own and he can't shoot off the dribble, I just don't understand how anyone with a history of basketball knowledge can possibly think this guy can be anymore than a glorified role player. He just doesn't have the skillset to do it and it's obvious if you've watched him the past 4 years.

And just so you know, our offense is 8th best in the league in terms of efficiency so we aren't exactly struggling. It's our defense in the past few games that has sucked, and we are definitely missing Horford because we have no big man depth.

[wallsfamily]

Here is my issue with a lot of "critics" we come up with these scenarios that don't make sense. The Hawks don't need to trade Josh Smith they need a center so that they could have the most versatle set of forwards in the league. Now trading a valueable peice of the team for the missing piece is idiotic. Josh will continue to grow along with the other young players and notice that we are in fourth place in the east behind 3 of the top four teams in the entire league. We have proven that we can play with anyone and we have done this with injuries and a lack of size. Please be patient with a group of guys that have gone from the bottom of the league to the number four seed (right now) in the east. Josh is needed as well as Marvin, Joe, Al, Zaza, A C, Bibby, and the rest of the team.

[ATL DirtyBird]

I almost want to retarct every statement ive said on the topic considering how well Josh played today. If he plays like that more often well be just fine, he prob played his best game of the year. Hope he can keep it up!

[rorodollar]

Send him to the Raps. We will give you Jamario and O'Neal.