MM: Packers will run 3-4

[Reddeye]

Is Capers overrated?

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/packers.html

# Amazingly, a lot of people hadn't yet heard that Dom Capers was named the Packers' defensive coordinator, including key NFC North figures. One high-ranking Minnesota Vikings official raised an eyebrow and then smiled widely. "Oh really?" he said. When told that Mike McCarthy said the Packers have the pieces to run the 3-4, his smile got wider.
# One person who used to work with McCarthy laughed out loud when told of the 3-4/pieces thing.
# The opinion on Capers runs the gamut. Guys who have worked with him swear by his preparation and underrated intensity. One long-time offensive assistant that never coached with him said he thought Capers was "a little overrated."

[Ill-yasova]

Is Capers overrated?

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/packers.html

# Amazingly, a lot of people hadn't yet heard that Dom Capers was named the Packers' defensive coordinator, including key NFC North figures. One high-ranking Minnesota Vikings official raised an eyebrow and then smiled widely. "Oh really?" he said. When told that Mike McCarthy said the Packers have the pieces to run the 3-4, his smile got wider.
# One person who used to work with McCarthy laughed out loud when told of the 3-4/pieces thing.
# The opinion on Capers runs the gamut. Guys who have worked with him swear by his preparation and underrated intensity. One long-time offensive assistant that never coached with him said he thought Capers was "a little overrated."

I don't think the Vikings have any idea what pieces are necessary to run a 3-4. Also the guy who said he was overated was an offensive assistant who never worked with him. Obviously we don't have all the pieces we need in place, but new pieces just got a hell of alot easier to find now that we are in a 3-4.

[MikeIsGood]

A team that has been running the 4-3 doesn't have every single piece necessary to run the 3-4?

Well, you don't say...

[Balls2TheWalls]

I would say the fastest way to make the transition is to upgrade our linebacking core. We have the fatboys to put on the defensive line. In fact Justin Harrell might be right at home in a 3-4 at the defensive end position. We don't have the outside rushing linebackers or the downhill hitting inside linebackers to play this system yet.

[dedned]

Wouldn't that be something if Harrell excels in the 3-4. Hopefully he can stay healthy. I'd like to know what they're thinking as far as the depth chart goes.

[Ayt]

I would say the fastest way to make the transition is to upgrade our linebacking core. We have the fatboys to put on the defensive line. In fact Justin Harrell might be right at home in a 3-4 at the defensive end position. We don't have the outside rushing linebackers or the downhill hitting inside linebackers to play this system yet.

I actually think Barnett and Hawk are a much better fit for this system as MLBs than they were for the last system. There was way too much reading and reacting going on in the 4-3 we ran compared to what they'd be doing in Capers 3-4.

[Wade-A-Holic]

Where do you see Peria Jerry going? We he be an effective end in the 3-4?

Jerry is a one gap penetrating type tackle. He'll do well in a cover 2 or next to a big DT who absorbs double teams.

The best 3-4 ends in this class are probably Tyson Jackson out of LSU and Jarron Gilbert out of San Jose State. Jackson can probably be had in the 2nd, Gilbert in the 3rd.

Gilbert's 2007 highlight tape: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHoBtyuof_A
Gilbert's 2008 highlight tape: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gK_SxTr4 ... re=related

I'm impressed with how strong he is and how well he uses his hands. On a few of those plays, he basically carried his man to the QB or ball carrier. He has pretty ideal size for a 3-4 end, too. He's flying up draft boards after how well he did in practice and the game the week of the East West Shrine Game.

[Wade-A-Holic]

I would say the fastest way to make the transition is to upgrade our linebacking core. We have the fatboys to put on the defensive line. In fact Justin Harrell might be right at home in a 3-4 at the defensive end position. We don't have the outside rushing linebackers or the downhill hitting inside linebackers to play this system yet.

I actually think Barnett and Hawk are a much better fit for this system as MLBs than they were for the last system. There was way too much reading and reacting going on in the 4-3 we ran compared to what they'd be doing in Capers 3-4.

I agree that Hawk will do better in an attack style defense where he isn't asked to play so much man coverage on the tight end, but I'm not as optimistic about Barnett. I think Bishop will make a much better ILB than Barnett will.

[crkone]

I actually think Barnett and Hawk are a much better fit for this system as MLBs than they were for the last system. There was way too much reading and reacting going on in the 4-3 we ran compared to what they'd be doing in Capers 3-4.

I agree that Hawk will do better in an attack style defense where he isn't asked to play so much man coverage on the tight end, but I'm not as optimistic about Barnett. I think Bishop will make a much better ILB than Barnett will.

I agree Barnett won't be needed much. We need fast, physical dummies now at LB. That makes Bishop perfect. Not someone like Barnett who overthinks and gets blown off of plays. Poppinga might work at a OLB spot, but I would rather get a better OLB opposite of Kampman.

[Ill-yasova]

I actually think Barnett and Hawk are a much better fit for this system as MLBs than they were for the last system. There was way too much reading and reacting going on in the 4-3 we ran compared to what they'd be doing in Capers 3-4.

I agree that Hawk will do better in an attack style defense where he isn't asked to play so much man coverage on the tight end, but I'm not as optimistic about Barnett. I think Bishop will make a much better ILB than Barnett will.

I agree Barnett won't be needed much. We need fast, physical dummies now at LB. That makes Bishop perfect. Not someone like Barnett who overthinks and gets blown off of plays. Poppinga might work at a OLB spot, but I would rather get a better OLB opposite of Kampman.

I think Bishop is a much smarter LB than Barnett. He was drafted for his instincts not his 40 time (which was terrible). I still think he's a better fit though.

[ReasonablySober]

For reference sake, I went back and checked out the sizes of the guys that made up one of the best 3-4 linebacking core this league has ever seen:

ROLB: Pat Swilling - 6'3", 245 lbs
RILB: Vaughn Johnson - 6'3", 235 lbs
LILB: Sam Mills - 5'9", 229 lbs
LOLB: Rickey Jackson - 6'2", 243 lbs

On the line was

LE: Wayne Martin - 6'5", 275 lbs
Jimmy Wilks - 6'5", 266 lbs
RE: Frank Warren - 6'4", 285 lbs

[ReasonablySober]

Barnett was a 2nd team All-Pro last season. If he's healthy you have to pencil him in at MLB. Even Ray Lewis looked done a couple years ago. Put some healthy beef in front of him and I think he returns to the stud we saw in '07.

[El Duderino]

For reference sake, I went back and checked out the sizes of the guys that made up one of the best 3-4 linebacking core this league has ever seen:

ROLB: Pat Swilling - 6'3", 245 lbs
RILB: Vaughn Johnson - 6'3", 235 lbs
LILB: Sam Mills - 5'9", 229 lbs
LOLB: Rickey Jackson - 6'2", 243 lbs

On the line was

LE: Wayne Martin - 6'5", 275 lbs
Jimmy Wilks - 6'5", 266 lbs
RE: Frank Warren - 6'4", 285 lbs

Players have got bigger across the board since then

The Steelers

Foote--240
Woodley--265
Harrison--242
Farrior--243

Smith--298
Keisel--285
Hampton--325

All that said, with the linebackers, ability and skills for each position in the LB core is important even if their size might not be ideal.

[ReasonablySober]

Players have got bigger across the board since then

No doubt. I was just curious is all to see how big the Dome Patrol guys were.

[Ayt]

For reference sake, I went back and checked out the sizes of the guys that made up one of the best 3-4 linebacking core this league has ever seen:

ROLB: Pat Swilling - 6'3", 245 lbs
RILB: Vaughn Johnson - 6'3", 235 lbs
LILB: Sam Mills - 5'9", 229 lbs
LOLB: Rickey Jackson - 6'2", 243 lbs

On the line was

LE: Wayne Martin - 6'5", 275 lbs
Jimmy Wilks - 6'5", 266 lbs
RE: Frank Warren - 6'4", 285 lbs

I loved that defense.

[El Duderino]

In defense of Berman there, he did also say "Ultimately though, the success of the defense will be fairly closely tied to the talent of the players as well as how they fit the scheme."

The skill level of coaches in any sport isn't 100 percent equal, so if you could give say 10 different coordinators be it offense or defense the same players, you wouldn't get 10 near exactly the same results. Capers high level abilities as a coach thus were part of the reason for the Packers success on defense.

That said, all coordinators will struggle if given an offense or defense really lacking in talent. Capers obviously did a fabulous job this year, but the defensive unit has some high level talents on it.

Besides simply teaching a defense, one of the better things Capers seems to have brought to the Packers is a really good defensive staff under him. Yea Ted has a good eye for talent in the draft, but it looks like this defensive staff as a whole is good at developing players. Matthews, Raji, Shields, and Tramon have all developed great under Capers and his staff. Kevin Greene not only helped in developing Clay, he did a great job with Zombo and was able to get Walden ready to play not long after being plucked off the street.

While head coaches and GM's do deserve plenty of credit when their teams win, generally a good head coach has a good staff overall under him. Those guys are very important in the development of players, especially on a team that believes so heavily in the draft.

[LarryHarris]

I remember being really upset that we switched to a 3-4... Then again, we didn't have Clay at the time. It seemed like we were trying to get Hawk and Barrnett in more natural roles... Seemed like a stupid reason at the time... Don't mind being wrong!