Rondo vs. Cousy

[Fencer reregistered]

I didn't watch the game last night, but I did see a few 3rd-quarter minutes. In particular, I saw the play where Rondo went up for a left-handed layup from the left, then whipped the ball back down for a behind-the-back pass. That play was physically impossible for anybody whose hands aren't big enough to palm the ball securely -- i.e., unless I'm much mistaken, it was impossible for Cooz.

Now, you could prove to me that Rondo was a somewhat better player than Cousy, and I'd still say Cousy was more impressive, because he innovated so many things that only started to be routine decades later. But that aside -- has Rondo surpassed Cousy?

I don't really know enough about Cousy's game to be sure.

[GuyClinch]

Alot of modern PGs are "better" then Cousy, IMHO. But that doesn't matter much when your comparing cross eras like that. Guys back then weren't even always full time ballers - and salaries were so much lower.

It's like this in almost ANY modern sport. I don't care if its swimming, ski racing, basketball, football etc. Things like proper nutrition, physical training methods (plyometrics etc), slow motion video tape analysis, full time dedication to a sport (from a very young age), leave modern players WAY ahead of where those guys in the 1950s were. Hell even the 1970 guys would suffer. Do you really think the 1970 Dolphins would go undefeated today? They would get manhandled.

Those guys were groundbreaking at his time Cousy was far and away the best (in his era). The fact that Rondo is better then Cousy is somewhat immaterial. So are D. Rose or Chris Paul etc, etc.. The flip side of this is had guys like Bird or Cousy grown up in THIS era they would have benefited from all the things I mentioned. Someone like Bird would be faster, stronger, quicker with modern training techniques... The same hold true for Cousy or any of those 1950's guys. Talk about a different era..

Yes Shaq would beat the crap out of George Mikan - but so what..

Pete

[RickyDizzle]

Haha no, its not close. Rondo has not surpassed Cousy.

Rondo has one championship and no all-star appearences. He has never lead the league in assists or been named to an all-NBA team.

Bob Cousy is a hall of famer, a PG pioneer, he lead the league in assists 8 years in a row. He won 6 titles in his career, was a 13 time all-star and was on the first or second all-NBA team 12 times.

Rondo is a great young PG with a promising future... but he is not even worthy of the comparison at this point... give him a few more years and then maybe Rondo can make a better case, but right now its a laughable comparison.

Note: Its also hard to compare since they were in such different eras. Rondo is clearly more athletic and can do things that Cousy never could, but compared to his peers Cousy was head and shoulders above the majority, Rondo is playing great but still establishing himself.

-Dizzy

[TheSheriff]

Here is a quick peak at what Cousy could do.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkrIrZcR42o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7nnZdyU ... re=related

BTW: Cousy leas the NBA in assists for 8 straight years.

Rondo is great, but does not have court vision Cousy did.

[tombattor]

HAHAHAHAHAHA. Not even close. Does OP think Rondo is clearly a level or two better than Chris Paul? IMO, Rondo can't even carry Chris Paul's jockstraps. And by the time Cousy was in the league for 3 years, he was clearly the best PG in the league and overall one of the best players in the league. Until Rondo destroys Chris Paul and there is no question who the best PG in the league is, we should never compare him to Cousy again. What a disgrace for even mentioning Rondo in the same sentence as Cousy.

And on top of what GuyClinch said, Rondo grew up with watching people do behind-the-back moves. When Cousy was doing it, no one's done it before. Which means, Cousy had to invent the move, where as Rondo just learned how to do it like 100 million other 13-year olds on the playground since.

[Gant]

Cousy had huge hands.

[Bad-Thoma]

Cousy was better, no doubt. Obviously CP3 and Deron are the best pg's in the game, but I think Rondo passes the ball as well as either of these guys, if he could drop 20 a night on opponents I don't think anyone would hesitate to put him in the top 3 in the league right now. Cousy was a true pioneer, but you can't sell Rondo's creativity short either, his behind the back fakes and no look bounce passes to the trailer on the break are pretty spectacular. Maybe it's all been done before but Rondo does it really well, and he just keeps getting better.

[avi623]

With Cousy, the analysis shouldn't be about how good he was, but how he defined the position. Personally I don't think he was as good as Stockton, Isaiah, and a few others. And I also think CP3, if he stays healthy and wins a title, will go down as the greatest point guard of all time (besides Magic). But those guys would not have played the way they did if not for Cousy. Also, it would be very interesting if they kept steals as a stat in the 50's and 60's to see how many he would have racked up.

I said to a friend while watching the game last night that if Rondo had a consistent jumper, there would be three point guards in the league that matter: CP3, Deron, and Rondo. In fact, if he could shoot it might be just Rondo and CP3, because those two gain possessions (rebounds and steals) better than any other point guards in the league. He is just that good in the other facets of the game.

[tombattor]

Cousy was better, no doubt. Obviously CP3 and Deron are the best pg's in the game, but I think Rondo passes the ball as well as either of these guys, if he could drop 20 a night on opponents I don't think anyone would hesitate to put him in the top 3 in the league right now. Cousy was a true pioneer, but you can't sell Rondo's creativity short either, his behind the back fakes and no look bounce passes to the trailer on the break are pretty spectacular. Maybe it's all been done before but Rondo does it really well, and he just keeps getting better.

But there is the big problem. Everything Rondo does has been done. Even that behind-the-back-fake has been done about a billion times already. Hell, even I've tried that move about a hundred times and succeeded many times, albeit much slower and less graceful.

And playing the "if" game doesn't work because you can say things like, "If Yao can shoot 3's like Ray Allen, he'd be the best offensive big man ever." Well, it's not easy to shoot 3's like Ray Allen and it's not easy to drop 20 a night.

[Bad-Thoma]

Cousy was better, no doubt. Obviously CP3 and Deron are the best pg's in the game, but I think Rondo passes the ball as well as either of these guys, if he could drop 20 a night on opponents I don't think anyone would hesitate to put him in the top 3 in the league right now. Cousy was a true pioneer, but you can't sell Rondo's creativity short either, his behind the back fakes and no look bounce passes to the trailer on the break are pretty spectacular. Maybe it's all been done before but Rondo does it really well, and he just keeps getting better.

But there is the big problem. Everything Rondo does has been done. Even that behind-the-back-fake has been done about a billion times already. Hell, even I've tried that move about a hundred times and succeeded many times, albeit much slower and less graceful.

And playing the "if" game doesn't work because you can say things like, "If Yao can shoot 3's like Ray Allen, he'd be the best offensive big man ever." Well, it's not easy to shoot 3's like Ray Allen and it's not easy to drop 20 a night.

I'm not sure what your criticizing here, I said maybe it's all been done before, he just does it well. So, um, yes, it's all been done before. As for the "if" game, everyone plays the "if" game. It's called speculation. Every op, trade idea, line-up thought, and second guess people post here is part of the "if" game. So if I want to post a thread saying, "If Rondo had a good outside jump shot he'd be a top three point guard," then I probably will. He doesn't, and he's not a top 3 point guard, and I agreed that Cousy was better (it's not even close at this point), but Rondo is one of the most creative and ballsy passers in the game today, and he keeps getting better. Just because it's been done before doesn't take away creativity, a painter painting a portrait is still doing something creative even though a gazillion painters have painted a gazillion portraits. (Wow, say that last sentence 10 times fast )

[tombattor]

I'm not sure what your criticizing here, I said maybe it's all been done before, he just does it well. So, um, yes, it's all been done before. As for the "if" game, everyone plays the "if" game. It's called speculation. Every op, trade idea, line-up thought, and second guess people post here is part of the "if" game. So if I want to post a thread saying, "If Rondo had a good outside jump shot he'd be a top three point guard," then I probably will. He doesn't, and he's not a top 3 point guard, and I agreed that Cousy was better (it's not even close at this point), but Rondo is one of the most creative and ballsy passers in the game today, and he keeps getting better. Just because it's been done before doesn't take away creativity, a painter painting a portrait is still doing something creative even though a gazillion painters have painted a gazillion portraits. (Wow, say that last sentence 10 times fast )

I'm not criticizing anything. Just pointing out that there is a big difference between being the first and being the 10 millionth.

Yes, you are right about the portraits. There have been millions of portraits, but Picasso was the first to paint a portrait in cubism and all the other artists who paint portraits in cubism are not Picasso, but just copying his style. Same thing in basketball. The basketball's been bounced and passed billions of times, but Cousy was the first to do it behind-the-back and every other player who tries a behind-the-back move are just copying Cousy's style.

[Gold Chain]

Not a fair comparison.

Remember when 7 foot Wilt Chamberlain dropped 100 points on a bunch of 5'6 white dudes who smoked and drank?

Come on, athletes continue to be better and that will never change.

Better competition makes better players.