How would you guys rate Mike Woodson's progress over time?

[bgassassin]

Seeing as he was a rookie head coach that inherited a bad roster, I remember seeing the constant complaints of wanting him fired a few years ago. I don't know if there are those among you who still want him gone or not. So tell me what do you think about him over the years. What were his weaknesses and strengths then and now, and what did you see the most improvement from him? And was it just him or did the improving roster play part or most of his actual improvement. These questions are due to the fact that Iavaroni has been placed in a very similar situation.

I came across this old blog from a Hawks' fan and the things said are very similar to the complaints I hear from fellow Grizzlies fans. Any input is appreciated.

[raleigh]

Let me preface this thread by saying that most NBA fans hate their coach.

I'd give Woodson a B-. He stresses the primary importance of defense, for which I must give him credit for. He was willing to play the young guys with talent right away (Williams, Smith, Horford) even when it meant losing.

My biggest criticism is his short rotation.

[killbuckner]

Until Woodson has a useful bench then I am not going to complain about a short rotation. I mean seriously- he has gotten more decent minutes out of Flip Murray than I ever thought possible but that is what he has to work with.

[LL Cool Scott]

Let me preface this by saying that I believe coaching is highly overrated in this league - usually the team with the most talent wins, regardless of coaching.

He's certainly no offensive genius, but I think he's done a fine job with the bizarre (and extremely young) roster he's had to work with over the years. He's never had a competent point guard until recently, and he still doesn't have a low post scoring threat. And like Buckner said, he's never had a good bench to rely on. He has this team playing solid defense (what he was brought here to do) and he has overseen the dramatic improvement of some young talent (Josh Smith, Marvin Williams, etc...). I have no problems with the job he's done. I'd give him a B.

[conleyorbust]

He needs an "offensive coordinator" or something like that.

[raleigh]

Let me preface this by saying that I believe coaching is highly overrated in this league - usually the team with the most talent wins, regardless of coaching.

I totally agree, but I prefaced first.

Yours has to be an addendum or something.

[JoshB914]

I'm glad someone has mentioned this. Suddenly all the Woody hating has vanished. There were serious posts last season calling him the "worst coach in the NBA" or even in all of sports. But to me this never had very much to do with Woody, but with the players he was given.

This league is about players, not coaches. Even the greatest coaches have failed when they weren't given great personnel (Riley, Jackson etc.) Some of the criticisms of Woody were simply because we as fans want the team to win, but I don't think we really wanted to admit that the issue was the players on the roster weren't good enough, so we blamed Woody instead.

Woody has been the same average to mediocre coach from day one. But as our PERSONNEL improved things started to work. For instance, Tthe same plays that weren't working with guys like AJ/Lue playing the point are now working with Bibby.

It's very clear that this was never a Woody problem. The real problem came from an incompetent GM who didn't understand the value of a PG, cheap ownership who weren't willing to spend the extra $$$ on a functional bench, and an extremely young team that was still learning how to win.

The one thing that I like about Woody is he has stood strong. He has stuck to his principles as a coach until the players finally learned his system. Even when he was on the hot seat and looked to be all but gone, he kept coaching the way he felt was right and was best for the team. When he got that extension over the offseason, I said I thought we did the right thing by keeping him simply for the sake of continuity within the team (and we know our ownership wasn't going to give big $$$ to a proven HC). I think it's starting to become very clear that was the right move.

[JoshB914]

And what is up with the blog post that bgassasin linked? Who in their right mind would be calling for Woody's head back in 2006 when our roster was unbelievably young and flawed?

[High 5]

You're smoking crack if you think the Woody hate has vanished. Maybe on here, but he's crucified nearly every game on Hawksquawk. He's an awful head coach. So much offensive talent being wasted. Whenever the Hawks fire him I can promise you no other team will even consider hiring him as their head coach.

[JoshB914]

That's because all anyone does on HQ is whine about Woodson. It's ridiculous and I can hardly read that message board because of it. Hardly ever any actual basketball talk on there Last year that board was up in arms with people calling for Law to play over Bibby for crying out loud..

If Woody is an "awful head coach" and we are currently the no. 4 seed then that just proves how little coaching matters. I'd also really like to know what offensive talent he is "wasting." If you think that a real HC can make us a better team than Orlando, Boston, or Cleveland then I don't know what to say. The team has holes and needs to get better, but I couldn't ask for much more than having a very good chance to get home court in the first round this season.

I'm not saying Woody is a good coach. I'm just saying the criticism of the Hawks should start with the PLAYERS. But for some reason that discussion always seemed to start with Woody and I don't think that was fair.

[High 5]

You can't fire the players. A coach is supposed to put his players in the best chance for them to succeed. You haven't been watching if you can say Woodson comes close to doing that. The 4th seed is nice and I'm not really saying this team can do better than that, but they can play MUCH better. We aren't going to beat anyone in the playoffs if we don't improve. But you have that loser mentality (not that I can blame you, it's hard being an Atlanta) so you can't really see it.

[JoshB914]

I will admit I have kind of a loser mentality. But my opinions on HC's in the NBA have been the same for a while. HC's get too much credit when things are going well, and too much blame when they aren't. Doc Rivers' team won a ring last year for crying out loud. That's the same Doc that most people said Woody completely out-coached in our series.

I agree with you that we can get better. This team frustrates me, too. We blow leads, make stupid turnovers, take bad shots etc. But I blame that on our players, it is up to them to execute. I also think there is a major lack of veteran leadership on this team outside of Bibby, which is also a major source of our breakdowns on the floor.

[High 5]

I agree that the coaches get too much credit, good or bad. But I just can't support a coach when his players make the same mistakes over and over again. When his team runs nothing that resembles a professional offense. When he says stupid things like, "We don't want Josh to stop taking three's."

At some point the coach needs to be held accountable. And if we were a more stable franchise I'm sure he would have been gone a long time ago.

[Master8492]

One of the biggest gripes against him would be not playing the bench (Solomon and Acie in particular)... if we have another coach I believe those two will get good PT ever game. So I just I don't think he's maximizing the level of play on the team.

[LL Cool Scott]

He's an awful head coach. So much offensive talent being wasted.

Say WHAT??? We don't have one single player who can score reliably in the post. We have one all-star on this team. What/who is this offensive talent you're talking about?

[bgassassin]

LOL. Well Iavaroni just got fired so I have no more use for this thread. Have fun with it.

[High 5]

He's an awful head coach. So much offensive talent being wasted.

Say WHAT??? We don't have one single player who can score reliably in the post. We have one all-star on this team. What/who is this offensive talent you're talking about?

You honestly don't think a starting five of Bibby, Joe, Marvin, Josh, and Horford could be utilized better? How long have people been calling for an up tempo game? How many times have we seen Joe playing 1v5? How many times have we seen Josh sitting around the 3pt line ready to shoot? How many times have we seen Horford try to back down huge centers? Etc.

I know people are going to say this falls on the players, but I refuse to believe the coach has no say on the way his players approach the game. Our athleticism is a nightmare for teams when they're actually moving. If he urged is players to run! run! run! I don't think they'd just ignore him.

I'm not saying we should be some offensive juggernaut, but we should have a much more consistent offense. We go through some ridiculously bad stretches just tossing up jumpers. That's usually why we never hold a lead.

[NDaATL]

If Woody is an "awful head coach" and we are currently the no. 4 seed then that just proves how little coaching matters. I'd also really like to know what offensive talent he is "wasting."

The fact that Woody gets so much credit for defense yet we've never even been in the top 15 of defense during his tenure is crazy. And, that's not even mentioning his putrid offense.

We consistently only barely beat bad teams, we constantly blow big leads, and I'm so sick of the iso-Joe offense during the 4th quarter where he dribbles the clock down for 20 seconds and jacks up a shot or passes to someone to throw it up before the buzzer sounds. Our offense is just sloppy, period. The fact that Smith takes 3pters and Woody quotes after the game "We aren't going to tell him to quit shooting threes" is another red flag.

The fact that we don't run the Pick and Roll when we have one of the best P&R point guards in the entire NBA in Bibby, as well as another pretty good one in JJ. Almost EVERY time we run it, Smith or Horford end up with a dunk/layup, or Bibby/Joe with an open shot. Yet, we don't go back to it. Bibby's BIGGEST strength his entire CAREER has been the P&R (and shooting), he is a master of it. We should run the P&R a minimum of 10 times a game.

His timeouts when another team is on a run just piss me off. Probably 60% of the time out of a timeout, we go to a player or Joe for the iso and he dribbles the clock all the way down. That's just not good at all. We are TERRIBLE out of timeouts.

There are so many times where a player will be on fire and he will yank them and not put them back in until the next quarter. It happens almost once a game and it's just annoying.

Bottom line, I agree we aren't as good as the top 3 in the east but we should definitely have a better record as we have just GIVEN away games way too many times because we just iso or play two man game down the stretch. Now, JJ is a very clutch player and he has often come up big, but that's just not good basketball and when JJ or Bibby are off we aren't going to win. If we move the ball, run the P&R and/or try to get easy buckets it won't happen as often and we'd be much more consistent down the stretch.

You don't just look at wins and losses as a coach evaluation, there are many factors. Woodson sucks.

[LL Cool Scott]

Woodson certainly is no offensive genius. Nobody would argue that. But he is a good defensive coach. We've got a top 4 seed right now despite some serious injury problems to our main players, and despite the fact that our team is still very young, and despite the fact that we have no low post threats. You win with defense in the playoffs, and this is a team full of athletic young players that can defend. So, I think having a defensive minded coach is a good thing.

And even if he isn't the reincarnation of John Wooden, who exactly do you guys think is going to come in here and drastically improve this team???

[NDaATL]

You win with defense in the playoffs, and this is a team full of athletic young players that can defend. So, I think having a defensive minded coach is a good thing.

So, we have a defensive minded coach with young players that can defend yet we've never been in the top 15 teams in the league in defensive efficiency. Nice.

Last season we were 23rd.

And even if he isn't the reincarnation of John Wooden, who exactly do you guys think is going to come in here and drastically improve this team???

Avery Johnson would be a great addition to this team IMO and a good young disciplinarian that would be great for this young team.