Rondo's Defense

[humblebum]

I don't really understand your argument here Pete, are you really saying that Rondo isn't a great PG defender? Sure, it's possibly the most difficult defensive position and getting beat off the dribble here is par for the course but there are guys who are absolute turnstiles and there are guys like Rondo who impact the game in various ways on the defensive end. Are you saying it doesn't matter which type of PG you throw out there? So Nash wouldn't have a negative impact on this team's defense?

I don't really see a PG out there who has a better all-around defensive package than Rondo at PG. For one he's excellent in full-court ball pressure and with his quick hands and long arms the dribbler can never be entirely comfortable with the ball when Rondo is around. Two, he's one of the all-time greats already with the poke from behind move, though this does tend to leave your bigs vulnerable to penetration. Three, he's a "great" defensive rebounder from the guard position. Four, he has a high BBIQ with the ability to anticipate and track down the pass for deflections and steals. And five, Rondo is spectacular at "digging" for the ball on bigs in the post and when another player is driving the lane. So basically Rondo's a complete defensive player at the PG spot not withstanding his lack of size which gets him in trouble when he switches onto SG's and SF's but I think that that's a relatively small piece of the defensive picture for a PG.

[ryaningf]

^^^What humblebum said.

Pete, you can state your issues with defensive win shares, but don't bury Rondo's defensive prowess in the process. It just weakens your argument. Even if there are demonstrative problems with win shares, it's still mighty impressive that Rondo ranks in the top 5 when historically only 4 guards in 34 years have EVER been in the top 5.

[GuyClinch]

I don't really understand your argument here Pete, are you really saying that Rondo isn't a great PG defender? Sure, it's possibly the most difficult defensive position and getting beat off the dribble here is par for the course but there are guys who are absolute turnstiles and there are guys like Rondo who impact the game in various ways on the defensive end. Are you saying it doesn't matter which type of PG you throw out there? So Nash wouldn't have a negative impact on this team's defense?

I think you got it. Rondo might be the best PG defender today - but he isn't particular game changing like Jordan was. The big problem is his lack of size and strength. The better PG defenders from a team perspective have always been oversized, IMHO. Guys like Kidd and Payton who could bother people on a switch. Payton could D up Jordan - to some extent..

Rondo's good defense is like icing on the cake. If he didn't have a head for the game he wouldn't play a minute. The PG is like the QB of the NBA. That's why guys like Nash can win MVPs. The fact that Cassell was 10x the better QB as chasing down guys that intercepted him doesn't mean he should start over Brady..

Obviously that analogy is not perfect but for the most part the PG is about the offense and running the team. That's how Dan Dickau stuck around.. It's the center and PF spot where you look for guys who make a defensive impact.

Perkins despite being similiarly defensive minded like Rondo is actually quite different. It's good post defense that keeps him in the NBA and the fact that he has learned a few offensive moves is the icing..

So my gripe is a poster say OMG Rondo defends like Jordan. No he doesn't. Teams are not worried Rondo is going to shut down their offense. Rondo doesn't even come CLOSE to shutting down his man. Jordan and Pippen would switch around - bother EVERYONE and just destroy teams (along with Rodman who wasn't much bigger then those two guys).

[humblebum]

Well I do think we need to keep everything in perspective: PG's generally do not impact the defensive side of the ball to the same extent as bigger, taller, stronger players do. But being that PG's represent the "first line of defense" they certainly play an important role. It's been mentioned but the full-court ball pressure factor is pretty important as a key indicator of offensive success is when and where the offense is initiated. If the offense has to start later in the shot clock and further from the basket on their sets due to PG ball pressure than that certainly is significant. Specific to Rondo, he's able to make an impact defensively because he's a super athlete, he's long, and he plays really intelligently. So although I don't think Rondo is on a peak-Jordan level of defensive impact at this point he certainly has that type of potential, simply in a smaller physical package, which as I mentioned is important to note because bigger players can simply guard a greater variety of opponents. Still, given that concession I don't think its wise to downplay Rondo's importance in the defensive success that the Celtics are currently experiencing.

[GuyClinch]

Minnesota shot what .530 without KG to counter them? I guess that 'pressure' really killed their offense. <g> A skilled NBA ball handler can deal with Rondo's pressure. It might work against an Eddie House or Delonte West 1/2 type but a true PG will be unfazed.

I don't entirely disagree with the OP. Rondo's defense is very good. I just don't think PG defense is a big factor in the NBA - for the simple reason even the best defensive PGs don't make a huge impact.

Its kinda life defense in left field or at 1st base in baseball. Your looking for a slugger there. You can't play a guy who can't field at all. But great defense is icing on the cake at those positions.

[GreenDreamer]

Minnesota shot what .530 without KG to counter them? I guess that 'pressure' really killed their offense. <g> A skilled NBA ball handler can deal with Rondo's pressure. It might work against an Eddie House or Delonte West 1/2 type but a true PG will be unfazed.

I don't entirely disagree with the OP. Rondo's defense is very good. I just don't think PG defense is a big factor in the NBA - for the simple reason even the best defensive PGs don't make a huge impact.

Its kinda life defense in left field or at 1st base in baseball. Your looking for a slugger there. You can't play a guy who can't field at all. But great defense is icing on the cake at those positions.

I don't think that you have any real idea of what I was talking about in the O.P. I was certainly not saying that Rondo was an equivalnet defender to Jordan., simply that he is doing something that only great defensive guards have done, and you don't do what that if you are merely "decent" or "above average". 36 years isn't a small sample size. 4 guards to repeat in the top 10 in each category, and Rondo will be the fifth.. barring injury.

Big men dominate these stats because bigs are USUALLY the most important defensive players on teams. The Wolves didn't shoot .530, by the way. They shot .487, and that was primarily because of Al's great night against our depleted front line. Did their guards do a whole lot? Nope.

Rgearding the whole "icing on the cake thing, how many mediocre to bad defensive point guards have headed up NBA Title teams? At least in the last 30 years or so. The most consistent trend at that position has been good defense, with regards tio winning it all, not good offense. Not that Rondo is a mediocre offensive point guard.