Trade ID #4973787 CHI / PHO / MN

[TDWOLVESFAN]

Trade ID #4973787
MINNESOTA
IN..............................2008........ 2009
JOAKIM NOAH...............2.3......... 2.5
KIRK HINRICH...............10.0......... 9.5

Out
RASHAD McCANTS........ (2.6)......... -
JASON COLLINS........... (6.2)......... -
CRAIG SMITH.............. (2.3).........(2.5)
KEVIN OLLIE................ (1.3)
May have to give up one of our draft picks to Phoenix.
We get a point guard who plays with consistency and is a decent defensive player and Noah fits our need at Center without taking minutes away from Al or Kevin. We do lose Craig's touch but get more length and defense.
We add 9.5 ml in salaries for 2009-10 for a total of 53.0 ml leaving 11-14 ml for draft picks and FA signings.

CHICAGO
IN..............................2008......... 2009
KEVIN OLLIE................ 1.3.......... -
AMARE STOUDEMAIRE... 15.1......... 16.4
CRAIG SMITH............... 2.3.......... 2.5

Out
JOAKIM NOAH............. (2.3)......... (2.5)
KIRK HINRICH.............. (10.0)........ (9.5)
DREW GOODEN............ (7.1).........0
total 2009-10 salaries................... 63.4
Chicago gets some much needed post scoring. loosens up their clog at guard and give up Noah whom doesn't seem like a fit there.

PHOENIX
IN........................... 2008........... 2009[/b
RASHAD McCANTS........ 2.6
JASON COLLINS........... 6.2
DREW GOODEN............ 7.1
possibly a pick from Minnesota

[b]Out
AMARE STOUDEMAIRE... (15.1)........ (16.4)
total 2009-10 salaries................ 45.9
Phoenix gets a free look a few players and dumps some serious salary. Amare wants to be more prominent in the offense - he would in Chicago #2 after Rose in my opinion.

[Basti]

no way the Bulls are going to get Amare for that package. and no, Steve Kerr is not that stupid to trade Amare for that package.

and from our POV I wouldn't do it either. Hinrich's conctract is really turning me off...

[southern wolf]

Great for us in terms of filling needs, but the suns get a big slap in the face. Amare could attract A LOT more.

[Krapinsky]

You should change your user ID to TDBULLSFAN

[TrentTuckerForever]

^C'mon, be nice. What are the Suns going to get for Amare? Honestly? He's a guy who put up great numbers in D'Antoni's system playing with Nash, but who's disinclined to play 'D' and is an injury risk. He's not really a guy who gets his own offense. So who trades more for him?

I'm a Hinrich fan (although Noah is overrated as a pro, IMO), so I'd do this deal for the Wolves. I agree that the Suns come up a bit short, but not that much. If I'm the Suns I'd want two picks, and Foye instead of McCants - beyond that I'm not sure it's that short of realistic.

[RD&KG2]

noah= no way

[TDWOLVESFAN]

Nope I'm not going to change my name to TDBULLSFAN. As I sit in the Target Center watching the games, I see our guards still get beat quite a bit and too many uncontested shots under the basket. I also see our offense come to a crawl when Foye runs the point, unless it's on the break. This trade would help fix these problems for us. Also it would give Al a break from getting beat up on both ends.

Name some other players that we can afford that we can get here via trade. One player is not going to do it. We need both positions filled. Minnesota is not a FA magnet so we can't depend on signing someone this summer.

Since the 2009 draft is not considered strong then we might as well go after pieces we know will fill our needs through trades.

[GopherIt!]

GopherIt! thinks that if we are looking at adding a PG we might as well wait until the draft and
see what our options are there first and then explore trades.

[revprodeji]

I am not going to address the phx aspect just what the wolves get.

hinny is a tough call. horrible, horrible contract but he is a smart vet pg that would fit very well. he is often considered one of the top 5 defensive pgs too. many bounce back and forth on noah but he is the big defender we would like to see next to al/love.

tough call on those two.

[shrink]

I would say that Hinrich and Noah are both on my top five list for players that make me feel conflicted. If someone writes a positive post about acquiring them, I often read it, nod, and say, "that makes sense." Then someone will write ap ost pointing out all the problems, and I'll nod, and say "that makes sense too."

[Krapinsky]

Nope I'm not going to change my name to TDBULLSFAN. As I sit in the Target Center watching the games, I see our guards still get beat quite a bit and too many uncontested shots under the basket. I also see our offense come to a crawl when Foye runs the point, unless it's on the break. This trade would help fix these problems for us. Also it would give Al a break from getting beat up on both ends.

Name some other players that we can afford that we can get here via trade. One player is not going to do it. We need both positions filled. Minnesota is not a FA magnet so we can't depend on signing someone this summer.

Since the 2009 draft is not considered strong then we might as well go after pieces we know will fill our needs through trades.

I was only kidding. But as others have said, this trade is a little too good for the Bulls.

As for the Wolves, sure it's fair. But as Gopherit! also expressed, I would rather just be patient.

Is Hinrich/Noah better than having Marvin Williams? I'm not quite sold on Williams yet, but even I think not. Besides, my guess is Phoenix thinks they can still contend around Nash/Richardson/Shaq by adding a 4 that plays defense and wants to be there.

A better deal for Phoenix might include Deng/Gooden/Simmons and Bulls #1.

[ChazzleDazzle]

For me (and I'm one that's been advocating bringing in Hinrich and Deng--though Deng is probably out of reach now that he's started playing a bit better--for awhile) I think it comes down to potential fit versus flexibility. Hinrich and Noah both have the potential to fit the Wolves very well. Hinrich has the size and the demeanor to be an anchor in the guard rotation, and Noah has the size and the defensive/rebounding mentality to work well next to Al. Neither is automatic, but the potential is there.

The length of contract, however, to me says that we don't owe (and shouldn't give up) an expiring in return. This is a situation where we trade the quality players that we have that could flourish elsewhere, but that are a bit of a risk for the team taking them on (Smith, McCants, possibly Carney), and shorter, non-expiring deals (both Maddog and Cardinal chop 2 years off of Hinrich's deal for Chicago).

We're surrendering cap flexibility in that scenario, but not the immediate flexibility that Collins' expiring represents. I haven't run the numbers completely, but that should still allow us to be active in free agency this year, and then build in the draft in the coming few.

I'd be a fan of something like:
Cardinal, Smith, Gomes and Madsen (and possibly Boston's Pick)
for
Hinrich and Noah

Probably wouldn't fly without another team involved, but that way we're maintaining our expirings, and our most tradable asset (Miller), while bringing on two potentially helpful pieces. Granted, if they don't work out, our future cap space is screwed, but starting with a core of:

1 - Hinrich/Telfair/Ollie
2 - Foye/Carney/Brewer
3 - Miller/Brewer
4 - Love/Noah
5 - Jefferson/Collins

Knowing that we have FA money and multiple draft picks to fill the holes is not too bad of a spot... Worst case scenario is that we draft or sign players that take the spots we had Hinrich and Noah pegged for, and they become hustle guys in the second unit, which they both have the demeanor for.

As for the Bulls, I remain committed to the fact that Smith is a player that could help them immensely, and Gomes fills a need as well. That and eliminating the rest of Hinrich's deal should be enough, but Paxson has a tendency to dramatically overvalue his players--I live in Chicago, and hearing him talk I expect to hear a Drew Gooden/Larry Hughes for Amare deal tossed out there any day.

Anyway, them's my thoughts.

[john2jer]

One tought I had a couple weeks back and posted on some other stupid forum on realgm, really the Wolves forum is the only important one, was that when have the Wolves even been in position to sign a big name free agent?

Maybe common sense says no one will come here, but other than the MLE, the Wolves haven't had a dime to spend on a big name free agent since Garnett signed his first big deal back in the 90's. Things have changed since then with the salary cap and luxury tax.

If we put the pieces in place, I don't think it'll be as tough as everyone assumes to get a decent higher level free agent. Obviously some names are out of the question because they're already looking at specific destinations, like LeBron in New York and Bosh in Dallas/Miami.

[jade_hippo]

I do enjoy that CaptainKirk has a contract that gets smaller as it goes. always a plus

[Mcfale313]

wolves say yes we filled our needs and get rid of our cancer
Suns say yes we want to trade away amare but we do not need players like Trashad McCants in return
Bulls say hey Suns stop complaining if u try to dump Amare "not gonna fit in our offense system and plays no D" Stoudmire

[Pumaman]

How about this one? Cleveland may not be keen on getting rid of Varejao with the aging frontcourt, but it would allow them to play Hickson more. Upside for us is we could have a nice 3 man rotation for the 4/5 spots, Smith and Gomes are too small.

Minnesota Timberwolves

Incoming Players
Daniel Gibson
Salary: $3,700,000 Years Remaining: 5
PTS: 8.7 REB: 2.2 AST: 1.7 PER: 10.96

Anderson Varejao
Salary: $5,784,480 Years Remaining: 1
PTS: 8.7 REB: 6.9 AST: 1.0 PER: 14.56


Outgoing Players: Mike Miller, Kevin OllieCleveland Cavaliers

Incoming Players
Mike Miller
Salary: $9,028,575 Years Remaining: 2
PTS: 9.2 REB: 5.8 AST: 3.6 PER: 12.62

Kevin Ollie
Salary: $797,581 Years Remaining: 1
PTS: 4.6 REB: 1.5 AST: 2.1 PER: 12.12

Minimum Salary Exception allowed trade to be successful

[TrentTuckerForever]

Incoming Players
Daniel Gibson
Salary: $3,700,000 Years Remaining: 5
PTS: 8.7 REB: 2.2 AST: 1.7 PER: 10.96

Anderson Varejao
Salary: $5,784,480 Years Remaining: 1
PTS: 8.7 REB: 6.9 AST: 1.0 PER: 14.56


Outgoing Players: Mike Miller, Kevin Ollie Cleveland Cavaliers

I'm not sold on Gibson as a full-time starter, but Varejao is the perfect 3rd big to play with Jefferson and Love. Yes for the Wolves.

Not sure the Cavs do this, though. Varejao finishes games for them, and they love their Boobie in Cleveland... although his skills are somewhat redundant with Mo Williams and Delonte West there. I think they'd be most reluctant to give up Varejao for Miller.

[shrink]

I agree with TTF. I'd give that a ride, but Cavs fans rely on Varejao for some size. It makes more sense for the Cavs if they want Mike Miller to use less productive players and give us cap space. I do like your trade for its fit for the Wolves!

[karch34]

I'm like Shrink and go back and forth on Hinrich and Noah. I will say that getting them would probably make it much easier to go BPA in the draft since we wouldn't be forced to draft for need.

I really think Chicago would do something like Collins and Cardinal plus Utah/Boston pick for Hinrich and Noah. Mainly to get rid of Hinrich's contract.

A variation on the 3 teamer I thought about is:

Minnesota Incoming
Drew Gooden(expiring)
Joakim Noah
Kirk Hinrich

Minnesota Outgoing
Mark Madsen
Brian Cardinal
Mike Miller

Chicago Incoming
Brian Cardinal
Alando Tucker
Amare Stoudemire

Chicago Outgoing
Drew Gooden
Tyrus Thomas
Joakim Noah
Kirk Hinrich

Phoenix Incoming
Mark Madsen
Mike Miller
Tyrus Thomas

Phoenix Outgoing
Alando Tucker
Amare Stoudemire

Needs some tweaking, but the thought is Miller would fit nicely on Phoenix as SF and Thomas gives them a young PF for the future. Chicago finally gets their interior presence. We get a PG and backup big that we need and swap Cardinal for Gooden's expiring for helping out Chicago. Could be done without Cardinal and Gooden as well.

[ChazzleDazzle]

Funny you mention that scenario--it was just being discussed on Chicago sports radio. They reached the conclusion that Paxson probably thinks he can get Amare for Larry Hughes and expirings, which is ludicrous. Instead, it would probably take a package of Thomas, Noah, Hinrich and their #1 this year (pretty much what you've just laid out here).

I'd think that if Chicago sent their #1 to Phoenix in that deal, and MN potentially threw them the Boston #1 (or even a 2nd rounder, since Phoenix is cash conscious), they'd have to look pretty seriously at that.

I'd think that Miller would have more value to them then Noah and Hinrich, since they already have Nash/Barbosa and just drafted the younger Lopez--also a hustle guy...