is the 7ft 300lbs monster overrated?

[revprodeji]

If not a liability?

this is random but work with me.

1.) in the past decade has there been anymore busts than drafting a 7ft too early?

2.) is it just chance that yao, bynum, oden seem to not stay healthy? bynum has had 2 serious knee injuries, yao is constantly injuried and oden had microfracture. if ur team is built around these beasts then at any moment the common injury could stop your season. even shaq had huge injury issues. is there a legit 7ft 300beast that starts that has not struggled with injuries?

is there something with the current nba game that hurts the big monster? perhaps we wil see more teams going with 2 pf and bringing a 7ft monster off the bench for 20min.

anyone else notice this?

[Chance1117]

There does seem to be lots of "Monsters" with injury problems.

For one the human knee is just not plain made to carry that much weight. I'm 6'5'' myself and because of that I'm more likely to injury. The cartilage in a 100lb 5'0'' girls knee is about the same as Yao's. There is also just the mechanical problem that the longer the appendage the more torque.

Also you have to think the taller the player is the less people there are like them. Like I said before I'm 6'5'' that make me taller then 99% of the people. So when you are reaching the height of 7'0'' these people are just about 1 in a million! The chances of someone being that tall and athletic are slim. Seems most centers are very raw and lets face it not talented. Most centers are much more gifted in being tall then their natural ability.

Sorry those are random thoughts and I don't care to spend forever organizing them and wording them perfectly.

I do agree that building around a huge center is hard. The bigger they are the harder they fall (and get injured). It when you get the 7'0'' guy that has tons of natural ability that you have someone to build around. I think Howard is the 7 footer you could build around.

[john2jer]

Isn't Howard like 6'9" barefoot? I think that's what he measured at the combine, he might have grown a little since then, though.

[Chance1117]

Isn't Howard like 6'9" barefoot? I think that's what he measured at the combine, he might have grown a little since then, though.

He is listed at 6'11'' but he has long arms and plays like 7 footer.

[revprodeji]

his athletic ability lets him play the 5 but he is only 6'9-6'10. which is why he is not the defender many say he could be. but he is a good example. it is safer to have a 6'10 260 rather than a 7ft 300 from the injuries. bring a 7ft shotblocker off the bnch

[PeeDee]

I don't think 7ft 300 lbs is the key, I think having a very skilled big that can play de is. Let's look at the past 10 years of NBA finals particpants:


2007-08 Boston Celtics Los Angeles Lakers Notable Bigs: KG/Gasol
2006-07 San Antonio Spurs Cleveland Cavaliers Notable Bigs: Duncan
2005-06 Miami Heat Dallas Mavericks Notable Bigs: Shaq/Dirk
2004-05 San Antonio Spurs Detroit Pistons Notable Bigs: Duncan/Wallace
2003-04 Detroit Pistons Los Angeles Lakers Notable Bigs: Wallace/Shaq/Malone
2002-03 San Antonio Spurs New Jersey Nets Notable Bigs: Duncan/Martin
2001-02 Los Angeles Lakers New Jersey Nets Notable Bigs: Shaq/Martin
2000-01 Los Angeles Lakers Philadelphia 76ers Notable Bigs: Shaq
1999-00 Los Angeles Lakers Indiana Pacers Notable Bigs: Shaq/Smits
1998-99 San Antonio Spurs New York Knicks Notable Bigs: Duncan/Robinson

Every year (except maybe the Detroit year) the NBA Champions had an elite big on their roster. Of course the other key is that most had one or more elite wing. Most, however, won without a traditional elite PG which makes me question their real value.

[john2jer]

I don't think 7ft 300 lbs is the key, I think having a very skilled big that can play de is. Let's look at the past 10 years of NBA finals particpants:


2007-08 Boston Celtics Los Angeles Lakers Notable Bigs: KG/Gasol
2006-07 San Antonio Spurs Cleveland Cavaliers Notable Bigs: Duncan
2005-06 Miami Heat Dallas Mavericks Notable Bigs: Shaq/Dirk
2004-05 San Antonio Spurs Detroit Pistons Notable Bigs: Duncan/Wallace
2003-04 Detroit Pistons Los Angeles Lakers Notable Bigs: Wallace/Shaq/Malone
2002-03 San Antonio Spurs New Jersey Nets Notable Bigs: Duncan/Martin
2001-02 Los Angeles Lakers New Jersey Nets Notable Bigs: Shaq/Martin
2000-01 Los Angeles Lakers Philadelphia 76ers Notable Bigs: Shaq
1999-00 Los Angeles Lakers Indiana Pacers Notable Bigs: Shaq/Smits
1998-99 San Antonio Spurs New York Knicks Notable Bigs: Duncan/Robinson

Every year (except maybe the Detroit year) the NBA Champions had an elite big on their roster. Of course the other key is that most had one or more elite wing. Most, however, won without a traditional elite PG which makes me question their real value.

What I see looking at that list is two common themes...

Shaq and Duncan

End of story.

[PeeDee]

How about Wade, Kobe, Parker, Ginobili, Peirce? All the bigs needed an elite wing counter-part to succeed. The lack of an elite, traditional PG is the thing that really stands out to me.

[john2jer]

Oh definitely on the elite PG, who was the last top elite point guard to win a championship? Tony Parker and Chauncey Billups are the best out of that lsit, but I think you have to go all the way back to Mr. Sexual Harrassment himself, Isiah Thomas to find an elite point guard that won. Unless I forgot about someone.

[chrbal]

How about Wade, Kobe, Parker, Ginobili, Peirce? All the bigs needed an elite wing counter-part to succeed. The lack of an elite, traditional PG is the thing that really stands out to me.

Really? In a thread about big men, that is focusing on the really big...you can't get past wings.

[PeeDee]

Really? In a thread about big men, that is focusing on the really big...you can't get past wings.

My point, in case you missed it, is that having a 7ft 300lb monster isn't condusive to winning... having an elite big, paired with one or more elite wing is.

So no, I wouldn't advocate taking the plunge on any old 7 footer just because he's tall and big. Most of them turn out to be overpaid liabilities.

[Devilzsidewalk]

in this day and age you definitely need a guard that can create offensive from scratch in the last 2 minutes of close games, but I think you need that bigman to get you to the point where you even have a chance to win in the last 2 minutes.

But you definitely need somebody who can create off the dribble for those 1 possession situations. Remember when we had Dwayne Casey - his "win the game" play was always to give KG the ball 30 feet from the hoop, and of course KG would get like 5 feet before 2 guys were able to surround him and force him to fire up a no hope prayer. Need a ball handler that can blow by defenders or split double teams, maybe get fouled or at the very worst get a half decent mid-range shot up. Most big men don't have the handles for that, nor are they comfortable shooting off the dribble.

Pistons are kind of the anomoly in all that in 04, but they were so chippy and surly, and had probably the best post defender and help defender in years, plus Prince was in shutdown any perimeter player mode and Chauncey was hitting clutch daggers, but that recipe didn't hold up for long.

[4ho5ive]

Aside from Shaq, what 7'0/300lb monster has accomplished anything worthwhile. Ewing, Robinson, The Dream, KAB, Walton, Duncan, none of these guys were 300+. Super athletic, strong, defensive bigs get it done. There arent alot out there in this caliber though.

[revprodeji]

I think this showsthat love/al would work. but we need another playmaker at the 3 or 1. foye is a keeper but he needs help.

duncan is likely 6'10. perhaps having our own 6'10 low post guy could work. we just need to teach him defense.

[Worm Guts]

I think this showsthat love/al would work. but we need another playmaker at the 3 or 1. foye is a keeper but he needs help.

How? I think people have been worried about interior defense, not 7 feet 300 lbs. Size would be nice, but it's not essential. I think the bigger key is athleticism and the ability play defense are the bigger keys to what we're looking for in a 3rd big.

duncan is likely 6'10. perhaps having our own 6'10 low post guy could work. we just need to teach him defense.

According to draftexpress measurement history, Duncan is 6'11.5 without shoes.

[AQuintus]

I think this showsthat love/al would work. but we need another playmaker at the 3 or 1. foye is a keeper but he needs help.

I think that 7'1" 300 lb Andrew Bynum showed that Love/Al might work, but doesn't right now. Neither of them is big enough, athletic enough, or strong enough to effectively guard a 7ft 300lb monster.

[Zeitgeister]

One consistent quality you will see in championship teams is great post defense. Its not just about having a great shotblocker, or having a guy that's 7' 300 lbs, its about having 1 or more guys that can absolutely lock down the paint. They don't have to be 7 feet tall and big, but the thing is those players are typically very good at post defense, that's not a coincidence. They typically have great length and wide bodies, so its difficult to get easy shots around them.

So its not just about the height of Al and Love that's concerning, but specifically their length, lack of athleticism, and defensive instincts. If Love or Al had the strength, athleticism and defensive instincts of a Ben Wallace, i'd be fine with that but they don't.

[younggunsmn]

Al is 6'9.5 w/shoes, 9'1 reach
Love is 6'9 with shoes, 8'11 reach.


Length is important. You can have perfect defensive fundamentals and be in the right place, but guys are still going to be able to score over and around you when you have the length and poor lateral agility of these 2 guys. And keeping 5 players in the right place all the time is alot harder than it looks.

Length is a "mistake eraser" for players. It allows you to alter a shot once someone has penetrated too far. KG just enveloped guys on the low post with his freakish reach. So many good opportunities died, even when guys had the ball in good position to score, because of his length. I haven't seen that from any of our players since he left.

Ben Wallace can overcompensate for lack of height because of his long arms.

Love has good strength and instincts, but poor agility and length. It's why he's a great, opportunistic offensive rebounder, but at times a poor defensive rebounder because the ball is easily tipped out from him because of his poor reach. His strength and instincts can make him a good post-up defender because he can push his man out, but he becomes a poor team defender because he has little ability to stop players who drive into the paint.

I actually think Al would be a decent weak-side shotblocker if he were playing PF next to a big defensive center.

Bynum absolutely destroyed us on both ends of the court. Al was 5/15 through 3 qtrs vs. bynum. He has a huge impact on the game, especially on the defensive end. He's a little knock-kneed and will have issues because of it, but his latest injury was just a freak thing where kobe crashed into him, it could've happened to anyone. The patella dislocation last year was more disturbing.

bynum and howard are like guys who hit 50 home runs in baseball or run a 4.2 forty, their particular game-changing skill sets are extremely rare.

We are going to keep giving up 110 points until we find someone who has the length, strength, and agility to be a presence down low. When you have 3 cornerstone guys who are and will probably always be defensive liablities because of length (love), height (foye) and physicality/desire (jefferson), you need to be able to overcompensate with above-average length and athletic ability at the other positions. We have ONE guy who can do that (Brewer). We need a rotational PG and C who can do it too.

[AQuintus]

Jrue Holiday (PG w/ 6'8" Wingspan) and Thabeet (C w/ 7'9" wingspan) are two guys that fit that description.

[revprodeji]

I really miss brewer.