Unwarranted Whining from Cleveland

gpguy25 · Post #1 » by **gpguy25** » Fri Feb 6, 2009 5:26 pm

Honestly Cleveland has no reason to cry over Sugar Ray being selected as a replacement. Now we aren't talking about a huge difference in stats here, even so Allen's numbers are better then Jameer in some ways and better then Mo Williams in others. You have to remember both Jameer and Mo are point guards who handle the ball for the majority of the game, so naturally their assist numbers will be higher. Jameer is having an outstanding year up until the injury and I had no idea his 3pt% was that high. Still that being said you could make an argument for Ray Ray over Jameer originally. I personally am not offended (nor should I be) that Jameer was selected over Ray. But the fact that Cleveland is crying over this makes no sense at all. Did they even compare the players or what? Now I know some of you are going to point out the fact that Boston complained about Ray not being selected originally, but in all honestly that was Doc Rivers supporting his players. Ray never said anything negative and in fact after the 76ers game Ray was a complete gentlemen when he was interviewed, he stated that he would accept the selection as a reserve and it would be a great honor to him. Here's the stats and the link to the Realgm article.

A few highlights from the article:

"Ben Wallace was right when he called Mo originally being passed over for the All-Star game a 'shamockery,'

" Cavs owner Daniel Gilbert said in a statement. "But not naming him as the natural and obvious replacement for the unfortunately injured Jameer Nelson is stupidiculous, idillogical and preposterous.

Link:http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/57055/20090206/cavs_incensed_about_williams_continued_snub/

Few Statiscal Arguments:
-Ray played 2 mins/game more then Mo and 5 more then Nelson (ok more playing time doesn't mean you see the ball more, especially on the Celtics)
-Ray is average 1.5 and 1.1 more pts/gm over the two
-Rebounds are equal
-Jameer has the assist edge, but Mo your a PG who plays like an SG only averaging 1.4 assists more per game.
-Jameer has the 3pt% by a good margin, but Mo is below 40% and Ray has Mo in the FG% and tied with him in the FT%

**How is this preposterous or a shammockery???????**

bingoboyraps · Post #2 » by **bingoboyraps** » Fri Feb 6, 2009 6:44 pm

...stats aside, I think they believe that Mo is more valuable to his team than Ray is to the Celts...it's certainly debatable...i think the words they are using are funny none the less...

Banks2Pierce · Post #3 » by **Banks2Pierce** » Fri Feb 6, 2009 8:31 pm

Contracts aside, show me one GM that wouldn't take Ray Allen over Mo Williams if they were doing a fantasy draft for this year only.

Red2 · Post #4 » by **Red2** » Fri Feb 6, 2009 9:00 pm

part of their beef is that nelson is a point guard and ray isn't a point guard. however, the all star game has never worried about filling the roster based on position so I think that's a pretty ridiculous position. Willaims is certainly deserving but let's get real- the guy is a gunner who gets a ton of looks playing along side James.How many games has he won this year ( or in his career) at the buzzer? Ray won one on Tuesday night. THe all star game has always gone with the proven stars over the youngsters when there's been a roster spot to fill and this is no different. williams will have his chance again. If you want to talk about travesty how about al Jefferson not getting in? BTW Gary Payton is flat out crzy to think that bosh deserves to go over KG.

Bigmiketruth · Post #5 » by **Bigmiketruth** » Sat Feb 7, 2009 12:32 am

Red2 wrote:part of their beef is that nelson is a point guard and ray isn't a point guard. however, the all star game has never worried about filling the roster based on position so I think that's a pretty ridiculous position.

Basically. Anyway it looks like Bosh is going to sit out so they can wipe their tears.

BakersDozen · Post #6 » by **BakersDozen** » Sat Feb 7, 2009 1:16 am

if Bosh cant go Im hoping Z replaces him. The east squad is light on bigs.... or better yet Lee or Okafor so we can hear more whining from Cleveland.

Bigmiketruth · Post #7 » by **Bigmiketruth** » Sat Feb 7, 2009 2:36 am

Jamison has the best case if they go big imo.

campybatman · Post #8 » by **campybatman** » Sat Feb 7, 2009 3:00 am

stupidiculous?

I did a Google search and was asked if I'd meant the words: stupid and ridiculous.

Anyways, I disagree that Maurice Williams was the obvious choice as a replacement to Nelson. I mean why does an All-Star roster need three point guards (if you regard Iverson as such) to begin with? How about a backup center to Howard? Okafor should be an All-Star reserve.

Perhaps, Williams will be named Nelson's replacement in the skills challenge since all participants are point guards.

grantlongforpresident · Post #9 » by **grantlongforpresident** » Sat Feb 7, 2009 3:15 am

mo williams is not an all star. he is quickly becoming the most overrated player in the league.

campybatman · Post #10 » by **campybatman** » Sat Feb 7, 2009 3:23 am

You could argue that this season produced one of the most overrated selection of eastern conference reserves in recent memory. Besides, Bosh, Pierce and Johnson, everyone else is interchangeable by other possible deserving names.

Garnett, James, Howard, Iverson, Wade, Bosh, Pierce, Granger, Lewis, Nelson (replaced by Ray Allen), Harris and Johnson.

I mean Atlanta could've been just as adamant about the exclusion of Bibby as a replacement.

polishph22 · Post #11 » by **polishph22** » Sat Feb 7, 2009 3:24 am

"mo williams is not an all star. he is quickly becoming the most overrated player in the league."

I'm not sure Rondo is ready to give that title up.

Jammer · Post #12 » by **Jammer** » Sat Feb 7, 2009 3:36 am

You don't take a newcomer over a proven performer.

Now, the Cavalier who deserved to be taken is Zydrunas Illgauskas,
who has missed a lot of games this year.

Probably the best predictor of All-Stars is NET PER,
which for the Eastern Conference 10 of of the top 12 NET PERs
were named to the original team,
with Zydrunas Illgauskas and Ray Allen being left off the Assistant Coaches ballots.
In the end, the lone player not belonging is Allen Iverson,
and you could make the case the lone diss is Illgauskas.

This is a very tough stat to excel in, since you have to play
D on your man to be at the top of the list in addition
to contributing at the offensive end.

NET PER Rankings (Your PER minus Your Man's PER) thru February 3

+09.7 Zydrunas Illgauskas (12th best in NBA, but only 36% of total team minutes)
+08.3 Ray Allen (16th best in NBA, 75% of total team minutes)
+00.8 Mo Williams (96th best in NBA, this is a joke right,
Szczerbiak, Delonte West and Ben Wallace rate higher,
the best Cleveland fans can argue for is a defensive joke)

Big Z, Delonte, Wally and Ben are more deserving than Mo "No D" Williams
(Although I've watched only two dozen Cavs games this year).
Big Z is the Cav who was dissed, not Mo.

bballboy44 · Post #13 » by **bballboy44** » Sat Feb 7, 2009 4:50 am

Cavs fan here.

I am upset with Stern and the Eastern coaches for not putting Mo into the all-star game. He came here and gave this team a huge boost. His numbers have been all-star worthy and is shooting great. He is LeBron's robin and has helped lead this team to the best record in the Eastern Conference. Every team in the Top 5 have at least two all-stars except Cleveland. Lakers (Kobe and Pau), Celtics (Pierce, KG, Ray), Orlando (Dwight, Rashard, Jameer (-Jameer)), and San Antonio (Duncan and Parker). Mo deserves it.

However, Ray Allen deserves it, too. He has been arguably the Celtics best player. I think that Mo and Ray should have made it, and while I don't like to bash other players, Devin Harris and Rashard Lewis I do not think were great picks. I don't see why it is bad having an extra guard. The depth chart is still fine. I hope that Mo makes it over David Lee if Bosh can't play (or if Stern decides to put in Kendrick Perkins :lol:

).

One last thing. I disagree about Z being an all-star. He missed too many games. Maybe at the beginning of the season when he was playing really good, but his injury really killed all chances of that.

campybatman · Post #14 » by **campybatman** » Sat Feb 7, 2009 5:19 am

bballboy44 wrote:I don't see why it is bad having an extra guard. The depth chart is still fine. I hope that Mo makes it over David Lee if Bosh can't play (or if Stern decides to put in Kendrick Perkins ).

Actually, what I'd said was that I didn't see the need of three point guards and not having another guard. In fact, Stern chose another guard, Ray Allen. That makes three shooting guards. That's fine, in my opinion. The All-Star game's about scoring than anything else.

If Bosh indeed can't go. Then if I were Stern, I pick Lee over Williams if those two are my choices.

I don't understand why fans are ignoring the season Okafor's having. He would deserve it over Perkins if choosing a center or forward/center. Another choice can be Jamison.

MaxwellSmart · Post #15 » by **MaxwellSmart** » Sat Feb 7, 2009 9:17 am

They should just cut Iverson.

Post #16 » by **sunshinekids99** » Sat Feb 7, 2009 1:13 pm

Mo Williams is not an All-Star and has no business being at the game.

campybatman · Post #17 » by **campybatman** » Sat Feb 7, 2009 4:14 pm

Apparently, Bosh could indeed be a scratch for the All-Star game. Too bad. He was one of the very few chosen as a reserve who deserved it this season. So, this now leaves only Garnett and Howard as your post players among the east All-Stars. In my mind, that unofficially rules out Williams. The third time won't be the charm, for him, I guess.

Post #18 » by **sunshinekids99** » Sat Feb 7, 2009 4:24 pm

I think they have to take a big. I'm assuming it's David Lee. Maybe an outside shot of Big Z or Okafor.

Kids Are Alright · Post #19 » by **Kids Are Alright** » Sat Feb 7, 2009 4:37 pm

MaxwellSmart wrote:They should just cut Iverson.

And replace him with Elton Brand....he's been equally destructive this year

CeltsfanSinceBirth · Post #20 » by **CeltsfanSinceBirth** » Sat Feb 7, 2009 6:17 pm

Ray deserves to be there. But Stern could have easily put Mo in there. If anything, it's a not-so-subtle message to Lebron that his teammates in Cleveland aren't popular enough to warrant an All-Star appearance. The next message will be put through when he chooses David Lee for the ASG.