OT: Phoenix and Portland discussing Stoudemire

[Spin Move]

It may not be such a bad trade for the Blazers. I know he's very overrated and can't play D, but he can still score and with Oden and Prez getting his back, his crap D won't be exposed as much.

The bottom line is, even though Aldridge is a very nice player with a lot of upside, he's not the offensive force Amare is and I doubt he'll ever get there. If you pair Amare with Roy, they'll be tough match for any defense.

I disagree, Amare absolutly CAN play D, which is why I like the pierce analogy, Pierce always could play D, in fact his early years he was well known for it, however for a long time he didn't try that hard all the time on D.

Amare has all the tools to be an EXCELLENT defender, he is both fast and quick with length and jumping ability to spare, he chooses not to alot of the time, but put him in the right situation and he can play excellent D.

[billfromBoston]

Amare's face-up game is pretty wet - he's not much of a back-to-basket player in terms of frequency - a majority of his post touches are from the left block and he takes half his shots on face-up from that position, which is a quasi-ISO for all intents and purposes...Pick-and-Roll and ISO is almost 40% of his game, so I think he'd work great with Roy and Oden - especially over the next 3 years as Oden's offensive game develops...

Oden is more of a clean-up guy and doesn't have the alpha personality or experience to challenge Amare as the 2nd option - Roy would still be doing most of the ball-handling, but he's so adept at giving up the rock, Amare would get plenty of P&R and kick-outs to the elbow/FT line extended for ISO and spot-shots...

By the time Oden is a real post threat, Amare would be able to adapt his game around Oden's spots - it is highly unlikely that Oden is going to be more efficient than Amare as he is one of the highest rated offensive players in the game for what he does with the basketball.

This would be a quality re-vamp for Phoenix as well - Aldridge/Bayless/Koponen/Freeland would be a quality package to rebuild with - then they can explore trades for Shaq, Nash, and Barbosa to acquire more assets...

[tombattor]

I disagree, Amare absolutly CAN play D, which is why I like the pierce analogy, Pierce always could play D, in fact his early years he was well known for it, however for a long time he didn't try that hard all the time on D.

Amare has all the tools to be an EXCELLENT defender, he is both fast and quick with length and jumping ability to spare, he chooses not to alot of the time, but put him in the right situation and he can play excellent D.

Maybe you are right, but he has yet to play good D in his 6 or whatever years he's been in the league. In fact, he's been pretty atrocious. Paul was never that bad on D. And just being athletic alone isn't enough to make you a good defender because even if you are athletic as hell, if you are constantly out of position or if you don't understand how to force the ball handler into your defense, etc. Then you are not a good defender. A lot of athletic offensive players fall into this category.

But yes, he does have the athletic tools to be a good defender, once he learns how to play it.

[wigglestrue]

Agreed. Amare plays little to no D and isn't exactly the rebounding machine Aldridge is.

What kind of rebounding machine? The "Easy Ed Macauley 5000" model?

I guess to you he is a younger version of KG. To the rest of the sane world, he is more of a good shooting power forward with a high BBall IQ who doesn't rebound or defend.

Exactly. He's a rich man's Mark Blount.

Amare has been a pretty good defender and a pretty good rebounder his whole career. EDIT: Tom says he's been an "atrocious" defender...seriously, how so? Amare's effort isn't there this year, but a trade will probably revitalize him. If Portland pulls this off, they'll be a true contender. If the rumors re: Chicago are true, I would rather have an offensively challenged Thomas than a defensively challenged Aldridge.

[sully00]

While I agree that Aldridge isn't the force that Amare can be the Mark Blount crap is silly. Like I mentioned earlier Aldridge is Pau Gasol good. Literally that is his offensive game maybe not quite as good a passer probably a little tougher. You can plug Aldridge in for 17/8 for the next decade.

Amare will be better and he will cost more and he is going to change your ball club. I think he is perfect for Derrick Rose and the Bulls, not so much for Roy and Oden in POR. I don't even see how Amare makes them better right now, the rest of this season and the playoffs.

[tombattor]

Amare has been a pretty good defender and a pretty good rebounder his whole career. EDIT: Tom says he's been an "atrocious" defender...seriously, how so? Amare's effort isn't there this year, but a trade will probably revitalize him. If Portland pulls this off, they'll be a true contender. If the rumors re: Chicago are true, I would rather have an offensively challenged Thomas than a defensively challenged Aldridge.

Oh is that right? When did you ever see Amare playing good D? A lot of what makes you a good defender is effort and dedication. Amare has neither and on top of that, he's a horrible help defender and that's a huge part of team defense.

I know you don't understand basketball very well, so let me teach you something. Defense is not all about one-on-one and who can jump high to block a shot. A lot of what makes a great defender is rotation, help D, etc. And that's what makes guys like Scal a decent defender. He knows where he has to be and how to rotate to cover the open guy. Next time you watch the Celtics, look for things like that because it's quite impressive how the Celtics help on D and rotate to recover.

[tombattor]

While I agree that Aldridge isn't the force that Amare can be the Mark Blount crap is silly. Like I mentioned earlier Aldridge is Pau Gasol good. Literally that is his offensive game maybe not quite as good a passer probably a little tougher. You can plug Aldridge in for 17/8 for the next decade.

Amare will be better and he will cost more and he is going to change your ball club. I think he is perfect for Derrick Rose and the Bulls, not so much for Roy and Oden in POR. I don't even see how Amare makes them better right now, the rest of this season and the playoffs.

Come on now. wigglestrue is being stupid when he said that stuff about Mark Blount, but Aldridge is no Gasol. From time to time, he shows flashes of being a good post player, but he's still very inconsistent. Certainly nowhere close to Gasol's level. Gasol is a guy who can carry an offense for stretches because he can't be covered by one player in most nights and require constant double-team. Aldridge's not there yet. Maybe in 2 or 3 years, but definitely not right now.

[wigglestrue]

Well, I did say a rich man's Mark Blount, lol.

[wigglestrue]

Amare has been a pretty good defender and a pretty good rebounder his whole career. EDIT: Tom says he's been an "atrocious" defender...seriously, how so? Amare's effort isn't there this year, but a trade will probably revitalize him. If Portland pulls this off, they'll be a true contender. If the rumors re: Chicago are true, I would rather have an offensively challenged Thomas than a defensively challenged Aldridge.

Oh is that right? When did you ever see Amare playing good D? A lot of what makes you a good defender is effort and dedication. Amare has neither and on top of that, he's a horrible help defender and that's a huge part of team defense.

I know you don't understand basketball very well, so let me teach you something. Defense is not all about one-on-one and who can jump high to block a shot. A lot of what makes a great defender is rotation, help D, etc. And that's what makes guys like Scal a decent defender. He knows where he has to be and how to rotate to cover the open guy. Next time you watch the Celtics, look for things like that because it's quite impressive how the Celtics help on D and rotate to recover.

Blah blah blah. A lot of this...a lot of that...not all about...right okay, but how do those admittedly big flaws make him -- OVERALL -- an "atrocious" defender? Fact is, he has been a pretty good one-on-one defender. One-on-one defending is a component of defense. You might even say it's a lot of it. You might say that defense is not all about rotating. So, would it more accurate to say that he's been a pretty good one-on-one defender?

EDIT: Meh, you know what, I'll just forfeit this one.
Amare sucks on defense in every conceivable way.

[sully00]

While I agree that Aldridge isn't the force that Amare can be the Mark Blount crap is silly. Like I mentioned earlier Aldridge is Pau Gasol good. Literally that is his offensive game maybe not quite as good a passer probably a little tougher. You can plug Aldridge in for 17/8 for the next decade.

Amare will be better and he will cost more and he is going to change your ball club. I think he is perfect for Derrick Rose and the Bulls, not so much for Roy and Oden in POR. I don't even see how Amare makes them better right now, the rest of this season and the playoffs.

Come on now. wigglestrue is being stupid when he said that stuff about Mark Blount, but Aldridge is no Gasol. From time to time, he shows flashes of being a good post player, but he's still very inconsistent. Certainly nowhere close to Gasol's level. Gasol is a guy who can carry an offense for stretches because he can't be covered by one player in most nights and require constant double-team. Aldridge's not there yet. Maybe in 2 or 3 years, but definitely not right now.

Pau Gasol can't do any of those things either. That is why his teams went nowhere. 17/8 is what it is first of all. POR right now is as good as any team that Gasol was on and they had plenty of talent. You might want to go watch the last time we played POR and see what Aldridge did to the Celtics. Gasol might have 8 years in the league instead of 2 but that is about all he has on Aldridge.

[Spin Move]

There have been stretches where Amare has played good defense, you have to remember he was coached by Mike dantoni most of his career who was not exactly pat rielly.

[campybatman]

I do this trade if I'm the Suns. I mean the deal on paper looks that much better if Phoenix can keep Nash which is becoming a concern now. Hence, the inclusion of Bayless is appealing. Then Phoenix could focus on moving Shaquille's salary. Barbosa could be traded as well. You don't need him if Bayless is coming in.

[aboubata]

so Portland wants a PG, I love being right.

[sully00]

That was the price tag leak. PHX wants a borderline All Star on a rookie deal and a lottery talent and no money coming back for Amare.

As far as what POR wants I see 4 options the only elite guy that could be available is Andre Miller, but PHI is going to want a nice ransom to perhaps sink their playoff hopes.

Then there are 3 guys who have the talent but have not shown the game this season, Baron Davis, Ray Felton, and Kirk Hinrich. Of the 3 Hinrich is the safe bet and likely fits what POR wants. He can shoot, defend and he is good locker room presence if things don't turn around for him right away.

Baron is the home run shot but he is just such a dice roll health wise and he is turning into Nick Van Exel were he is awesome the first two months and then it gets rocky and then it turns into WTF. I don't think the Blazers need celebrity dating.

Then there is Felton who one night looks like a minny Baron Davis and the next a laughing stock of a top 5 pick. TJ Ford I guess is also worth consideration.

I would say it is got to be either Miller, Hinrich, or Baron. I wonder if they couldn't steal Hinrich for LaFrentz and CHI use Raef to get Amare.

[Mahoney_jr]

It's difficult to find a PG that covers what Portland needs. I think Hinrich gives them at least better perimeter defense, which is one of the biggest weaknesses the Blazers have right now. But then they need to have more penetration and FT generation from the wings.

[aboubata]

I forgot about Hinrich, but I think Chicago will hold on to him until end of season, unless they get a good offer for him or they could unload couple bad contracts with him.

I am starting to think a multi team deal could be good. Thunder, Suns, blazers, and bulls

[CelticFaninLBC]

I don't see Hinrich being much better than Blake and a pg is the most difficult position to implement into an offense with 30 games to go..

Portland should try to work a deal with Phoenix and Miami where they get Shawn Marion and send Raef's insurance covered deal over to Phoenix... That seems like the most appealing deal for Phoenix who's trying to save money.

[Rocky5000]

If I were Phoenix I'd ask for a Rudy Fernandez do over.

[CelticFaninLBC]

Marion to Portland
Beasley, Raef and Fernandez to Phoenix
Amare to Miami

[aboubata]

their PG has to mostly play some D and shoot an open shot. Running the team will be for a few minutes when ROY is resting. Roy does most the ball handling, like JJ in atlanta.