Mike Conley to ATL anyone?

[killbuckner]

Thanks Harry for once again showing us just how little connection your opinions have to reality.

[parson]

Harry, are the tag-team terribles after you now?

Gentlemen, listen carefully, you...are...confusing...those...players...who...only...take...putbacks...or...lay-ups...with...real...shooters.

OF COURSE, they shoot for a high percentage. But the REAL shooters, the guys who work to get open while being defended, they shoot better if they are allowed more shots.

Now, those who only shoot when the shot falls into their laps DO INDEED shoot for a higher percentage, but we weren't talking about that, now were we? We were talking about Joe Johnson.

You 2 have been in rare form the past couple of days, but I'm afraid you let this subject slip in and bite you in the butt.

[lunarblues]

i'm looking at conley's stats, even when he has had the chance to start with extended minutes and i still don't see anything worth giving up any of our starters for. (and that's what it's gonna take to get him over here). there are too many 0-3's and 1-4's on his three pointers for the game. thats the one stat that counts for a point guard on the hawks team. if you can't hit three point jumpers as a point guard. then you aren't going to be successful.

[killbuckner]

Just out of curiosity- do you think that Jason Kapono would shoot a higher percentage if he took more shots per game? Or maybe you don't consider him to be a REAL shooter.

[parson]

kill, nice response. It points out why "comparisons" are distracting to the actual point: one is always able to find an exception or loophole. Jason Kapono usually only shoots when he has a wide-open shot, now doesn't he? We were talking about Joe Johnson. Or are you trying to say that PHO used Joe only like TOR uses Kapono?

You said, "its easier to shoot a high percentage when you take fewer shots." Harry tried to tell you that a shooter needs to get into a rhythm, which you can't do with only a few shots.

But to actually answer your question: I don't know, but if they made him the FEATURED COMPONENT of their offense as we do Joe, or if they ran plays for him and everybody set picks for him the way the Pacers used to do for Reggie Miller, then maybe he'd shoot better.

THE REAL POINT IS, Jason Kapono is a complementary player and, therefore, a poor comparison for Joe Johnson.

[killbuckner]

Joe Johnson was a complementary player in Phoenix. He was the 4th best player on the roster. I really don't see how you missed this.

The point is EXACTLY that when you shoot less you can choose to only shoot when wide open. The more you shoot the more times you are picking more difficult situations to shoot in.

[parson]

I give up. You pass by all the damning points that doom your argument and choose the one little one that might give you a chance to "win" this debate. Even then, you end up saying that PHO used Joe Johnson the way TOR uses Jason Kapono.



I STILL say Joe would perform/produce/play better if he had a play-making PG like Steve Nash.

[tontoz]

i'm looking at conley's stats, even when he has had the chance to start with extended minutes and i still don't see anything worth giving up any of our starters for. (and that's what it's gonna take to get him over here). there are too many 0-3's and 1-4's on his three pointers for the game. thats the one stat that counts for a point guard on the hawks team. if you can't hit three point jumpers as a point guard. then you aren't going to be successful.

Whether Conley is worth pursuing is a totally separate issue from his outside shooting ability.

Bottom line is that Conley shooting 38% from 3 on the season on 100 attempts which is good by anyone's measure, especially for a 2nd year player. Conley shot 50% from 3 last month.

Bibby has had cold nights this season from 3. He started the season 0-6 from 3 in his first game.

[killbuckner]

Parson- I just pointed out the core point of the argument. In phoenix Joe was a complimentary player and he shot a high percentage. For him to take more shots he would have had to take more shots in more difficult situations and his shooting percentage would have gone down. Somehow you and Harry disagree that taking shots in more difficult situations would hurt your shooting percentages. I'm sorry that I had to be the one to tell you that Joe Johnson was a complimentary player in Phoenix- I guess you sort of missed the part where he was on a team with Nash, Amare, and Marion.

[conleyorbust]

Parson- I just pointed out the core point of the argument. In phoenix Joe was a complimentary player where other players were setting him up and he shot a high percentage. For him to take more shots he would have had to take more shots in more difficult situations and his shooting percentage would have gone down. Somehow you and Harry disagree that taking shots in more difficult situations would hurt your shooting percentages. I'm sorry that I had to be the one to tell you that Joe Johnson was a complimentary player in Phoenix- I guess you sort of missed the part where he was on a team with Nash, Amare, and Marion.

Yeah, there is an arc I'd think with shooters. If you never get any shots than you are less likely to shoot well because you aren't used to game speed and stuff. Once you are getting shots though, the more shots you take the more you will be defended and the harder it will be to get open shots at all.

[tontoz]

Harry, are the tag-team terribles after you now?

Gentlemen, listen carefully, you...are...confusing...those...players...who...only...take...putbacks...or...lay-ups...with...real...shooters.

OF COURSE, they shoot for a high percentage. But the REAL shooters, the guys who work to get open while being defended, they shoot better if they are allowed more shots.

Now, those who only shoot when the shot falls into their laps DO INDEED shoot for a higher percentage, but we weren't talking about that, now were we? We were talking about Joe Johnson.

You 2 have been in rare form the past couple of days, but I'm afraid you let this subject slip in and bite you in the butt.

It is easier to make open shots than contested shots. The more attempts you take the more likely it is that many of them well be contested. it isn't hard to understand.

JJ said himself that he was primarily a spot up shooter with the Suns which is a big reason why he left. He knew he had more to offer and he didn't feel he would get the chance to show all of his skills with the Suns.

[td00]

As evil cleared up for me earlier, there really isn't the logjam with PGs that was once there in Memphis. But Mayo and MCJ together might present a backcourt that is just too young to succeed anytime soon. Not knowing how quick Memphis wants to be competitive, it just sounded like an excellent time to inquire.
And to talk about MCJ and his 3pt success, no one would have given Marvin Williams a 2nd thought when talking about his 3 pt shooting prior to this year. I didn't think he could improve that much in one area during one offseason, but he proved me wrong.
MCJ has lots of time to improve and I just think he could set us up long term. Depends on how Woody uses him...to his strengths or forces his non-offensive-movement sets on him. I believe MCJ will make those around him better once he gets starter minutes.
I have no confidence in the ASG convincing Bibby to stay after this season with their statements of being non-profitable and their confused ownership state. Perhaps this will all work out?

[lunarblues]

the thing about it is that we didn't have to give up anything when marvin became a good three point shooter. we will have to give up something on the hope that mike conley becomes good. and i doubt memphis is gonna like a conley for maurice evans trade.

what would we have to give up to get conley? if it isn't much then yeah we can take a flyer on the guy with the hope he'll become better. but if they want marvin or josh or al, then we are gonna need more than a guy that's shooting 38% from three.

[Harry10]

The league leaders in shooting percentage have always been guys (like Childress) who don't take many shots.

The guys who lead the league in attempts (like Iverson) rarely shoot a high percentage.

....tontoz, it is funny because you are so far off... and Kill, you are killing yourself again

why don't you guys start watching basketball, instead of just pretending you know something

why don't you look at the top "Guards" in shooting percentage, heck also look at the top "Guards" in shot attempts and tell me who in the top ten is shooting less than .420?!?!?

http://www.nba.com/statistics/player/FieldGS.jsp?season=22008&league=00&conf=OVERALL&qualified=Y&position=5&splitType=9&yearsExp=-1&splitDD=&pager.offset=0

[killbuckner]

look at the top "Guards" in shot attempts and tell me who in the top ten is shooting less than .420?!?!?

Harry- you have really outdone yourself on the stupidity scale this time. You don't even know how to read the chart you linked to? Jamal Crawford is #10 in field goal attempts and is shooting .417.

Idiot.

[tontoz]

The league leaders in shooting percentage have always been guys (like Childress) who don't take many shots.

The guys who lead the league in attempts (like Iverson) rarely shoot a high percentage.

....tontoz, it is funny because you are so far off... and Kill, you are killing yourself again

why don't you guys start watching basketball, instead of just pretending you know something

why don't you look at the top "Guards" in shooting percentage, heck also look at the top "Guards" in shot attempts and tell me who in the top ten is shooting less than .420?!?!?

http://www.nba.com/statistics/player/FieldGS.jsp?season=22008&league=00&conf=OVERALL&qualified=Y&position=5&splitType=9&yearsExp=-1&splitDD=&pager.offset=0

You are really clueless. You are talking about perimeter shooting and how more shots increases shooting percentage.

Rondo is 2nd on your list and he;

a) rarely shoots
b) is one of the worst perimeter shooters in the league

http://www.82games.com/0809/08BOS1.HTM

Rondo's EFG% is 31.6%, even worse than Smith. yet this is the guy you want to use to bolster your argument?



he gets his points taking it to the basket. Getting points on drives has nothing to do with perimeter shooting.

[HawksVictory]

Think maybe they would do Law and our #1 next year? That'd be about the only things we'd be willing to give up that are worth a damn. They probably wouldn't do Evans and our #1.