Pierce no longer the bigtime scorer, but makes a good point

[campybatman]

Pierce has certainly evolved as a player since the acquisitions of teammates Ray Allen and Garnett. In some ways, I think all three players are better players for this. Especially, for Pierce and Garnett. Because Garnett has made it known too that he has moved on and has accepted that at this stage in his career. He doesn't need to put up gaudy numbers to be successful as a player. And I don't believe either player feels this way entirely due to their age. You just change as a player. You mature. Or you learn to adapt your game to the changes forced on by age. It's good that these two phenomenal players realize this now and not become a shadow of themselves down the road still trying to perform like they once did. Not to mention, I'll like for Pierce to retire a Celtic. I don't want salary to get in the way of that. Hence, I'm curious of what Pierce will accept in a contract extension.

Anyways, I also believe that Garnett won't do his Superman theme anymore. It would seem out of place in some ways. Pierce is no longer that player anymore. But, I still see that Mister Fourth Quarter in him. He's still The Truth.

This week, the Knicks surrendered 61 points to Kobe Bryant in a loss to the Lakers and 52 points to LeBron James in a loss to Cleveland, both players receiving positive receptions from the home crowd.

But the Celtics' Paul Pierce was content with a 26-point performance.

"My days of putting up big numbers [are] over with," Pierce said. "I'm within the team concept; that's the formula that we need to win. We don't need one guy to go out and score 46 points; we rely on our teamwork, our extra passes, our defense."

"It could happen. Paul had a big game in the playoffs [a 41-point game against Cleveland]," Rivers said before the game. "But for the most part, we're more of a ball-movement team, we try to share the ball, so it would be very rare, almost strange, to see a 50-point game out of one of our guys. Having said that, I would take it, absolutely.

About James and Bryant, Rivers added, "They were extraordinary games by two extraordinary players and give the fans some credit for appreciating that. It happened to us three or four years ago with Kobe in Boston Garden, they had an MVP chant one game and as coach of the Celtics at the time, I didn't enjoy that, either, but my take on it for us at the time was, we have to get better."

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball ... m_concept/



And I'll add this to Rivers' last quote in that excerpt.

"I was texting Spike as the game was going on, saying how disappointed I was in the fans chanting "MVP!" for Kobe," Miller said Tuesday, speaking on a TNT pre-All-Star conference call. "I was like, 'How the mighty have fallen.'

"Because I remember in times past, I never got cheered. I'm sure Jordan never got cheered. And now they are chanting "MVP!" for Kobe? And all (Lee) kept doing was texting back and going, 'Look, times have changed. The climate has changed.'"

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/9177 ... VP'-chants

[exculpatory]

Bonsa my friend - nice post.

However, I would express it another way. Paul gives the team what it needs on a given night. He has lost NONE of his prodigious, multifaceted scoring skills at age 31 - the skills which Tommy H has said over and over again make him the best pure "scorer" in the history of the Boston Celtics, and the skills which, in about 15 games, will result in him becoming the THIRD LEADING SCORER IN CELTIC HISTORY with greater than 18,300 points. Paul is totally capable of going off for 30-40 if the team requires that on a given night. He has done that about 6-8 times this year already. Feel free to check his game by game stat line. On the other hand, on most nights, the team does NOT need him to do this because Paul, KG and Ray Ray blend so beautifully, and are mature, unselfish superstars and future HOFers who simply want to win first and foremost. Therefore, you will see many 12-20 point games in his game by game stat line as well, where he focuses on rebounding, assists (he is a very underrated passer), and DEFENSE!!!! Even during those games, he morphs into 1 of the most clutch players of his generation during Q4 when necessary (especially during the last 5 minutes), makes critical shots and generates invaluable assists. We have seen this over and over and over again. Indeed, even before KG and RA arrived, according to the excellent website 82games.com, he led the league in CLUTCH ASSISTS in the last few minutes between 2003 and 2006 (aside from his many many gamewinning or game icing shots).

GO GREEN. GO CELTICS FOREVER. WE ARE GOING TO WIN #18 THIS YEAR. NEVER DOUBT THIS.

[s1ickd]

The teamwork stuff is great.

However, there are times when we need Paul Pierce to take over, and not have Big Baby taking jumpers with 2 minutes left in overtime.

Paul proved that he can still D up Kobe mano a mano and contest every shot he takes. If they went back and forth for an entire game, i don't think Kobe would be much more successful than him. If anything, he'd get tired first from Pierce's contact filled style.

If it wasn't for Pierce's 41 points against Lebron, or his MVP performance in the Finals, we wouldn't have even come close last year. Paul still needs his superstar swagger for us to win.

[stretch]

it's not the kobe-pierce matchup i'm worried about.
Pierce has more often than not won that matchup, or at least held his own. It's not the best matchup for Kobe.

It's the Pierce-Lebron matchup I'm worried about. LeBron is much much better this year. What he did against Detroit two years ago in the ECF, he can do against us. And I don't know if we can do to him what the Spurs did when he was two years younger. The Cavs team this year is much harder to defend as well. Pierce is in better shape, but he's lost weight, and besides KG he's the only player we can really put on LeBron. Do you honestly think we can put TA on LeBron for more than 1 minute? No Posey means it's all Pierce.

That's really scary. Pierce can channel that other gear. But LeBron wants it just as bad this year. We'll see how the celtics defense fairs against him, but if Pierce fouls out (as you can expect in the playoff road games at Cleveland), then we probably don't win those games. Home court is way too important against Cleveland.

[stretch]

Not to mention, there really aren't any players that can shut Pierce down in the NBA. I could envision a Jordan in his prime having a hard time. You have to keep going up to him and poking the ball away, with good help.. but he's such a good passer. Kobe can't, Tayshaun can't, Artest can't.

But LeBron can come as close as anyone to making him somewhat ineffective on the offensive end. That's the scary part. Considering what the Cavs can already do to Ray Allen (the concerted effort). Marbury really would be invaluable (as would Joe Smith) against that team.

[threrf23]

it's not the kobe-pierce matchup i'm worried about.

I've been thinking about this. I'm wondering if we could afford to have PP&KG play a permanent double team on Lebron if we assign Perk to a one man near the basket zone...we would give up a lot of two point jump shots to Big Z but that wouldn't kill us.

[campybatman]

Bonsa my friend - nice post.

However, I would express it another way. Paul gives the team what it needs on a given night. He has lost NONE of his prodigious, multifaceted scoring skills at age 31 - the skills which Tommy H has said over and over again make him the best pure "scorer" in the history of the Boston Celtics, and the skills which, in about 15 games, will result in him becoming the THIRD LEADING SCORER IN CELTIC HISTORY with greater than 18,300 points. Paul is totally capable of going off for 30-40 if the team requires that on a given night. He has done that about 6-8 times this year already. Feel free to check his game by game stat line. On the other hand, on most nights, the team does NOT need him to do this because Paul, KG and Ray Ray blend so beautifully, and are mature, unselfish superstars and future HOFers who simply want to win first and foremost. Therefore, you will see many 12-20 point games in his game by game stat line as well, where he focuses on rebounding, assists (he is a very underrated passer), and DEFENSE!!!! Even during those games, he morphs into 1 of the most clutch players of his generation during Q4 when necessary (especially during the last 5 minutes), makes critical shots and generates invaluable assists. We have seen this over and over and over again. Indeed, even before KG and RA arrived, according to the excellent website 82games.com, he led the league in CLUTCH ASSISTS in the last few minutes between 2003 and 2006 (aside from his many many gamewinning or game icing shots).

GO GREEN. GO CELTICS FOREVER. WE ARE GOING TO WIN #18 THIS YEAR. NEVER DOUBT THIS.

Thank you.

I didn't think I would admit this, but Rivers has had a part in widening Pierce's perception on things. Remember how the relationship between the two didn't start off well. Then Pierce begin to appreciate his head coach and his new philosophy for the Celtics. I give credit to Thibodeau as well. And enough can't be said about how Ainge seemingly never gave up on either star player or head coach. Most fans didn't turn on Pierce but a lot turned on Rivers. Both got their fair share of criticism by fans and the media, though.

For me, I didn't read too much into Pierce's comments. Pierce is still a young player, a tough player. He hasn't broken down and I would say he isn't old. I feel it's about the mentality you bring to the game. Pierce knows that he's in a situation where he can prolong or extend his career if he makes the proper adjustments in his game. It's like what you do when you desire to better your health. It all comes down to choice for players. Do I want to score a lot of points? Do I need to? Can I still do so if need be? Of course, he can... With all the things he's capable of doing as a professional basketball player; he's still a natural born (NBA) scorer. Scorer don't forget how to score.

One thought that resurfaced in my mind: Can Pierce catch Bird? Could he even consider catching Havlicek? Not that it would be that important to Pierce. As a fan, you wonder these things out loud wen you see the numbers in front of you. And since Pierce is the only active Celtic player who's capable of ascending among the all-time scoring leaders in Boston Celtics history. You wonder... My quick answer... I believe Pierce can pass Bird and finish no worst than second if and when he decides to retire. Havlicek? Tough. Because I think Pierce wants to leave the NBA on his own terms and might not want to continue playing once it's evidently clear that he has lost more than a step as a player in general. For this reason, a lot of factors would've to work in his favor. For one thing, Boston needs to remain a competitive team and a playoff team for the duration of Pierce's career. Any drop off from now or whenever in the team's success could signal a realization. Perhaps, it's time to get out. Move on, if you will.

[campybatman]

Wow. I've been searching for this article. Interesting read... That's a good question. Who would Pierce compare to among retired star players that he resembles in game and style of play who can help you determine the kind of player Pierce will be down to road? Will he age well?

How Long Until The New Big Three Become The Old Medium Three?

Authored by Elrod Enchilada - September 5, 2007 - 6:06 pm


The concern with Pierce is his body type – chunky – and his playing style – aggressive and physical. He gets beat up going to the hole like few NBA players – hey refs, how about giving Paul a few more calls from now on? -- and eventually, like Earl Campbell in the NFL, that can take a toll. So his is the most difficult to project. What we do know is that Pierce is the youngest of the three. In fact Pierce probably feels like Tommie Lee Jones when he was cast with James Garner and Clint Eastwood in Space Cowboys. “Why am I being lumped in with these geezers?”

And we also know that Paul passionately loves playing hoops and is dedicated to the game. So he may be able to extend his career. In his case, more than KG or Ray Allen, a cut back in minutes to 34 per game, might help keep him fresher and healthier.

I find it more difficult to find a retired player whose career arc could be a model for Paul Pierce. The best I can do is Charles Barkley, though Barkley was a better player than Pierce, as much as I love Paul.

Charles Barkley's Career Stats

Barkley peaked in the season he turned 30, and then had four or five more years of solid all-star caliber play, but below the level he played at from age 25 to age 30. His prime, compared to Malone and Miller, came to an end several years before theirs did. So did his career.

I think Paul, despite his younger age, is the biggest question mark of the three in terms of who will remain at his peak the longest. And I think he still has a good chance of remaining at his peak until he is at least 32, or three more seasons. Anything past that is gravy. I think his stated goal of losing weight this off-season – despite playing the 3 rather than the 2 – is a very good idea. The more he looks like John Havlicek and the less he looks like Charles Barkley the better.

http://celtics.realgm.com/articles/345/ ... ium_three/

[campybatman]

Pierce with a back-to-back thirty-point game. Uh oh! Someone woke him up...

[GuyClinch]

I am not so sure I would call PP "chunky" LMAO. That smacks of someone who has only see the guy on TV..