OT: Jermaine O'Neal Traded To Miami

Post #1 » by **HMFFL** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 8:21 pm

Like the Amare thread this one will be merged to the sticky as well. Dallas already pointed out the trade in the Southeast Division thread.

What does this trade mean for us and the Southeast division?

I feel this trade makes Miami a much stronger team this year even if Jermaine played limited minutes (25 or under).

Thoughts?

LL Cool Scott · Post #2 » by **LL Cool Scott** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:31 pm

Crap. If he stays healthy, they're going to be tough to beat in the playoffs. I hope we can hold them off for homecourt advantage. Looks like a good deal for both teams.

killbuckner · Post #3 » by **killbuckner** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:45 pm

I think its a good thing because this means that there is no way that Miami can get Boozer for next season. I don't think JO has much left in the tank at all.

td00 · Post #4 » by **td00** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:08 pm

I have to agree with kb on his review. I don't see JO giving much to Miami. He seems to never be at 100%.

Now, they are on the hook through next year for that Marbury-like contract. They have to get more for their money than the Knicks are getting.

I just knew Riley wasn't satisfied with where they were in the standings as they would try to make a push towards that 4th slot. JO or not, I still think we can match up well with Miami.

I don't think Marion gets his due for being a very good player. He would fit in well with us.

HoopsGuru25 · Post #5 » by **HoopsGuru25** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:13 pm

I don't get why fans are worried of JO. He's a name player but he's actually not that good even when he does play. He is still a good defender but his offense actually hurts the team. He is a "name" but his value to a team is not much more than the MLE. I said this summer that his actual value on the court wasn't that much better than Rasho's yet everybody still talked about how much better Toronto would be.

Miami is still the team I'd least like to see in round one because of Wade but I don't think this trade made them any scarier...they still have no 2nd option as of now which is by far their biggest weakness. The real story to me is that they are going to have a ton of caproom to possibly go after someone like Joe which does worry me a little.

D21 · Post #6 » by **D21** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:20 pm

Even with keeping Marion, and let his contract expire, they would not have get enough cap room to sign Boozer. They would have need to trade one of Blount or Haslem for an expiring to get enough room.
I think they tried it, but with no deal offered, they only have to go for someone who can help them until 2010.

conleyorbust · Post #7 » by **conleyorbust** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:27 pm

I think D21 got it. They thought about Boozer and preferred their '10 options (being one of the few teams that could realistically pull a big name) so they snagged a center that isn't Magloire/Joel Anthony til then.

Because of that, the downside isn't that bad. If JO gets healthy and it doesn't work, they slide to the 7 seed or so and lose in the first round instead of losing in the first round as the 5 or 6 seed. If it does work, this lineup:

Chalmers/Quinn
Wade/Cook
Moon/Beas
Haslem/Beas
JO/Haslem

and the defensive downgrade is negated because Moon is a poor man's Marion and JO is a better interior defender than Haslem and Anthony and they get better offensively because Beas will have more opportunity to play and the kid scores buckets of points when he's on the floor.

evildallas · Post #8 » by **evildallas** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:16 pm

conleyorbust wrote:I think D21 got it. They thought about Boozer and preferred their '10 options (being one of the few teams that could realistically pull a big name) so they snagged a center that isn't Magloire/Joel Anthony til then.

Because of that, the downside isn't that bad. If JO gets healthy and it doesn't work, they slide to the 7 seed or so and lose in the first round instead of losing in the first round as the 5 or 6 seed. If it does work, this lineup:

Chalmers/Quinn
Wade/Cook
Moon/Beas
Haslem/Beas
JO/Haslem

and the defensive downgrade is negated because Moon is a poor man's Marion and JO is a better interior defender than Haslem and Anthony and they get better offensively because Beas will have more opportunity to play and the kid scores buckets of points when he's on the floor.

Pretty much my take as well. O'Neal when healthy is a major upgrade to Anthony/Magloire and since Marion didn't fit in the offense, Moon and Beasley getting those minutes may actually be an improvement there as well. If all gels they could be a big threat to the #4 spot. If O'Neal breaks down then they are right back where they are now which is a legit #5. Low risk move for this season, but it commits them for next year which might not be so bad since 2010 is the big opportunity for free agency.

From Toronto's point of view it was a good salary dump to abort an experiment, but if you use transitive properties they really didn't do well dealing TJ Ford and Rasho overall. They went from #5 in the East to almost completely rebuilding at the end of next season (if Bosh walks, for sure) in essentially one move. Ouch.

conleyorbust · Post #9 » by **conleyorbust** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:43 pm

^Not only that, but they lose a future 1st in the process, which may or may not hurt them but they lost a 1st this year when they traded a young point guard for a broken down big so in the end they basically traded TJ Ford, Moon, and two 1st rounders for Marcus Banks and the only thing they have to show for it is that they get out of Ford's contract a couple of years early. Alls I can say is, they had BETTER make a FA splash with that money they save on Ford's contract (which is actually less than $4m because they have to take on Banks' equally long contract). That all assumes that Marion doesn't feature in their long term plans of course, but he's a 31 year old that relies almost entirely on his hops so its not too much of a stretch.

evildallas · Post #10 » by **evildallas** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:55 pm

Hollinger seems to be projecting that this trade means that Miami wins round 1 in the playoffs, but no further. The problem with that is that he projects Atlanta to be the first round Miami opponent.

link here

evildallas · Post #11 » by **evildallas** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:57 pm

conleyorbust wrote:^Not only that, but they lose a future 1st in the process, which may or may not hurt them but they lost a 1st this year when they traded a young point guard for a broken down big so in the end they basically traded TJ Ford, Moon, and two 1st rounders for Marcus Banks and the only thing they have to show for it is that they get out of Ford's contract a couple of years early. Alls I can say is, they had BETTER make a FA splash with that money they save on Ford's contract (which is actually less than $4m because they have to take on Banks' equally long contract). That all assumes that Marion doesn't feature in their long term plans of course, but he's a 31 year old that relies almost entirely on his hops so its not too much of a stretch.

I didn't realize when I posted earlier that Toronto sent a protected first to Miami for cash. Better have a lot of protection because they seem lottery bound for the next couple years.

Lue_4_MVP · Post #12 » by **Lue_4_MVP** » Sat Feb 14, 2009 12:00 am

Colangelo just got "BK"ed by Riley.

Skyhawk1 · Post #13 » by **Skyhawk1** » Sat Feb 14, 2009 12:58 am

I really want to meet JO's agent. How in the world he got him that contract? The trade makes the Heat better. Not by much though. Marion is one of the most overrated players in the league along with JO, but since the Heat didn't need Marion, JO gives them some presence inside. He's a ball stopper though, so I'm wondering how they'll feed him when Wade has to have that ball to do what he does best, score. Now, the Raptors are a franchise falling apart. I know they got Marion's expiring, but it's hard to imagine they can attract any great players when there's rumors about Bosh leaving and they can't make one right decision. That trade that sent T.J. Ford and Nesterovic + fillers for JO killed any depth they had.

Post #14 » by **HMFFL** » Sat Feb 14, 2009 1:12 am

evildallas wrote:
I didn't realize when I posted earlier that Toronto sent a protected first to Miami for cash. Better have a lot of protection because they seem lottery bound for the next couple years.

The first round pick is lottery protected.

I'm surprised Bryan Colangelo included a first round pick considering he's taking on Marcus Bank.

Now I'm curious to see what Bryan does during free agency to improve Toronto's future. Toronto has some of the best fans out there and I doubt they plan on being silent if Toronto doesn't turn things around.

Boner Champ · Post #15 » by **Boner Champ** » Sat Feb 14, 2009 4:05 pm

Hey guys, Raptor fan here who wanted to get your take on this. My personal feeling is that Raps are going to use their capspace this offseason to make runs at RFAs on the wings.

How much do you think Atlanta team management values Marvin Williams? Not to be a dick, but I think he might be a target for the Raps above the MLE.

evildallas · Post #16 » by **evildallas** » Sat Feb 14, 2009 7:57 pm

Stalker wrote:Hey guys, Raptor fan here who wanted to get your take on this. My personal feeling is that Raps are going to use their capspace this offseason to make runs at RFAs on the wings.

How much do you think Atlanta team management values Marvin Williams? Not to be a dick, but I think he might be a target for the Raps above the MLE.

Marvin's qualifying offer is 7.355M which is considerably higher than the MLE, so that's where you have start to exceed. Toronto won't have a lot of cap room, so it'll be tough for you guys to pull it off. If you renounce Graham, Marion, Solomon, Parker, and Delfino (still have his cap hold/rights) and factor in your 1st round pick cap hold you should be around 50-51M in salary. Without freeing up more salary, I suspect the Hawks would match the level of contract the Raptors can offer (8-9M starting salary).

The one thing I can assure you is that Atlanta doesn't want to exceed the luxury tax threshold meaning they have 26M to handle 2 starters and 3 key reserves (if we renounce Childress), so your target is probably a good choice, but I just don't think you have enough bullets.

JoshB914 · Post #17 » by **JoshB914** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:17 pm

JO has never made his team better, I don't expect him to start now.

The team I'm worried about getting hot and making a run at no. 4 is Phili. If they can go on a run like they did last year in the second half then they will be right in the mix to get home court.