Article on Packers transition to 3-4

[Reddeye]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d80eabdc5&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true

[MadCityBucky]

Those biceps are huge (Igor)

I definetely hope that the Packers are going to pursue one of those two defensive ends because the position is a backbone of the 3-4 defense (second only to the nose tackle). As Kirwan stated "The ends usually are the unsung heroes of the package. They set up the outside linebackers for the pass rush, hold the point of attack against the off-tackle run game and control the line of scrimmage."

Harrell could thrive as a DE but you can't rely on someone who hasn't shown the ability to stay healthy. Jenkins should do fine though his pass rushing skills won't be as evident.

So as it stands without FA or the Draft

Jenkins-Pickett-Harrell

Kampman, Barnett, Hawk,Poppinga

Bigby, Collins

I probably messed up their positioning, but you get the idea.

As Kirwan also indicated, another NT is needed because Pickett can't play every down and he is getting up there in age. The Packers don't have a decent backup NT.

So what I and possibly most others see as the three biggest needs in the offseason are

1. A backup and future nose tackle (Raji)
2. A Weak outside line backer with great pass rushing skills (Everette Brown, Brian Orakpo)
3. A defensive end (Igor, Canty)

[ReasonablySober]

God damn I miss Sirius NFL radio. I haven't had it since my car blew up on me last summer. Pat Kirwan was on every day and the guy is a brilliant football analyst. Xs and Os, player management, the draft. This is an outstanding article, thanks for the link.

[eagle13]

Great article.

Igor should be do-able for us b/c from what i hear out here Chargers are not that interested in keeping him. Which makes you wonder if Igor would help us as Chargers saw Igor as part of the reason why their defense (3-4) wasn't as good last year.

Right now Pickett is only NT option and he's sketchy. No way Cole, Harrell or Jolly play NT effectively.

From this it seems we NEED NT. Maybe we trade down 2 or 3 spots and take Raji unless they see a NT candidate in 2nd?

Seems Jolly Cole Montgomery and maybe Thompson & Hunter don't fit 3-4.
Can Jolly or Harrell play DE?
Can Thompson & Hunter play OLB?

I love Jenkins but not sure he fits either. IF he hates 3-4 maybe we move him?
Probably could get a 2nd or maybe a low 1st for him?

[Wade-A-Holic]

Great article.

Igor should be do-able for us b/c from what i hear out here Chargers are not that interested in keeping him. Which makes you wonder if Igor would help us as Chargers saw Igor as part of the reason why their defense (3-4) wasn't as good last year.

Right now Pickett is only NT option and he's sketchy. No way Cole, Harrell or Jolly play NT effectively.

From this it seems we NEED NT. Maybe we trade down 2 or 3 spots and take Raji unless they see a NT candidate in 2nd?

Seems Jolly Cole Montgomery and maybe Thompson & Hunter don't fit 3-4.
Can Jolly or Harrell play DE?
Can Thompson & Hunter play OLB?

I love Jenkins but not sure he fits either. IF he hates 3-4 maybe we move him?
Probably could get a 2nd or maybe a low 1st for him?

Olshansky had a down year in 2008 for sure, but I'd still be very interested in signing him. He's a tough player and an excellent run stuffer.

Raji isn't a nose tackle. He could probably do it, but it doesn't suit his strengths. He'll be much better off in a 4-3. Raji made all the plays at BC while Ron Brace took on all the double teams.

Harrell projects pretty well to end (if healthy, of course), but I'm not too sure about Jolly.

A lot of scouts projected Thompson to a 3-4 OLB going into last year's draft. He's a very good athlete.

[ReasonablySober]

Right now Pickett is only NT option and he's sketchy. No way Cole, Harrell or Jolly play NT effectively.

From this it seems we NEED NT. Maybe we trade down 2 or 3 spots and take Raji unless they see a NT candidate in 2nd?

Colin Cole may be a perfect fit for the 3-4.

Seems Jolly Cole Montgomery and maybe Thompson & Hunter don't fit 3-4.
Can Jolly or Harrell play DE?
Can Thompson & Hunter play OLB?

We obviously won't know until next season, but I think the four you listed could easily make the transition.

I love Jenkins but not sure he fits either. IF he hates 3-4 maybe we move him?
Probably could get a 2nd or maybe a low 1st for him?

As a player Jenkins is ideal for a 3-4. We'll see if he puts up a stink when asked to play there, though.

[El Duderino]

I hope i'm wrong, but from what i saw out of Jeremy Thompson last year, he looked on the stiff side and thus i question if he'll be able to be much of a pass rusher as an OLB.

Cole has bulk and maybe he can be reasonably adequate as a backup NT, but he's never struck me as overly stout when playing DT in a 4-3 and as a 3-4 NT, he'd have to hold his ground even more. That's not an easy position to fill though, so there may not be another viable option unless Ted spend a high pick on a NT and the kid proves he can play right away.

As for Jolly and Harrell, i don't have high hopes at all for either being able to make the transition to a 3-4 end even if both are healthy because i just think both are 4-3 defensive tackles. In the end though, we just may end up needing one of them to play some snaps at end because only so many players can be shipped out and replaced in one offseason.

[Jollay]

I tell ya, this 3-4 may be the right thing to do, but it has me nervous as hell...

I will say that I'm not an ace at assessing this stuff, but I tend to agree with ElDude--I can't see Thompson, Harrell, or Jolly being at all personnel that we would want to stick around in the new scheme.

God, are we going to have to almost purely draft for the front seven this year and ignore getting a young OT or corner?

I almost feel like we have to, and just let training camp figure everything out.

[eagle13]

I tell ya, this 3-4 may be the right thing to do, but it has me nervous as hell...

I will say that I'm not an ace at assessing this stuff, but I tend to agree with ElDude--I can't see Thompson, Harrell, or Jolly being at all personnel that we would want to stick around in the new scheme.

God, are we going to have to almost purely draft for the front seven this year and ignore getting a young OT or corner?

I almost feel like we have to, and just let training camp figure everything out.

Seem pretty sure we'll take OL in 2 or 3 (if not 1) unless TT surprises with a OL in FA which I doubt as there are few worth while.

I just hope TT gets Igor or other DL in FA. Plenty of OLB/OL prospects in draft. Not so many DL.

[ReasonablySober]

There are quite a few solid five technique DEs in this class. What there aren't a lot of are nose tackles and defensive backs. As for offensive lineman, there are some excellent centers and guard. I think you could get a future pro bowler in round two or three. The tackle class is alright but not as deep in years past. A good amount of juniors that could have been first day picks didn't declare.

[eagle13]

There are quite a few solid five technique DEs in this class. What there aren't a lot of are nose tackles and defensive backs. As for offensive lineman, there are some excellent centers and guard. I think you could get a future pro bowler in round two or three. The tackle class is alright but not as deep in years past. A good amount of juniors that could have been first day picks didn't declare.

I know you have faith in Jolly & Harrell as DEs and Cole as NT. I do not. So I figure we draft 1 DE to rotate w/ Kamp & hopefully Igor. Then have Jolly &/or Harrell there to try and see. IF no Igor then we need 2 DEs.

As for OL - a LT would be my ideal but I do not expect best to be available. Maybe better taking good G or C to convert in 2nd or 3rd as you say and then play College at RT and try Barbe at LT (his college position) behind Clifton for a year -tho maybe he's ready to play LG now after 2 seasons - I doubt it. I'd be surprised (and delighted) if Beno is ready this year. I really doubt it.

[ReasonablySober]

Kampman isn't playing DE, he'll be one of two OLBs.

I'm not saying I have faith in anyone. Just because they have the physical ability to play the position doesn't mean that it'll work out. But I'm also a realist. You won't see the Packers getting two DEs, a NT an OLB. Maybe filler in the later rounds but Cole, Jolly and Harrell will probably be better than anything we see in the 5th, 6th or 7th round.

If the Packers were going to look for value, I'd say Jenkins or Raji in the first, an OLB in the 2nd, OL at the top of the 3rd and a developmental DE/DL in the middle of the 3rd.

[Ryan5UW]

Kampman isn't playing DE, he'll be one of two OLBs.

I'm not saying I have faith in anyone. Just because they have the physical ability to play the position doesn't mean that it'll work out. But I'm also a realist. You won't see the Packers getting two DEs, a NT an OLB. Maybe filler in the later rounds but Cole, Jolly and Harrell will probably be better than anything we see in the 5th, 6th or 7th round.

If the Packers were going to look for value, I'd say Jenkins or Raji in the first, an OLB in the 2nd, OL at the top of the 3rd and a developmental DE/DL in the middle of the 3rd.

Exactly. Assuming Capers and his staff get more than just one year here, it's going to be a process putting all the pieces together. They might overweight the draft this year towards finding some of those pieces sooner rather than later, but the skill sets at different positions combined with who's on the roster dictates that this won't be a quick process. They have guys on the roster who can be plugged in at different positions, but that doesn't mean they're the right fit or the long-term answer. No matter what happens in FA and the draft, you can't be upset if there's a position or two they don't address all that much, only so much can be done in one offseason.

[eagle13]

Kampman isn't playing DE, he'll be one of two OLBs.

I meant Jenkins at DE not Kampman as I've stated in many posts. Of course everyone knows this. My bad for obvious error.

If the Packers were going to look for value, I'd say Jenkins or Raji in the first, an OLB in the 2nd, OL at the top of the 3rd and a developmental DE/DL in the middle of the 3rd.

If they take Raji 1, OLB 2 and sign Igor then that's exactly what i'm saying. 1 NT, 2DE & 1 OLB.
But I also would be fine with Jenkins. IF they do that... then they still draft a NT/DT and DE.

You won't see the Packers getting two DEs, a NT an OLB. Maybe filler in the later rounds

Well I said lower rounds. And you & I talked about this last year when you dissed lower rounds. There are plenty of good players in league that were taken 5th and lower. I do not think of any pick as filler. Especially with the busts and mediocre players that have been taken in rds 1-3.

Cole, Jolly and Harrell will probably be better than anything we see in the 5th, 6th or 7th round.

Odds are your right. But that doesn't mean Cole, Jolly and Harrell will be any good. I doubt Jolly and Harrell can be effective starters at DE. It would be a wonderful bonus if they proved to be even strong contributors as reserves.

Overall I think we all agree our DL needs help. At least 1 starting DE & a NT that can be in regular rotation.

[ReasonablySober]

I totally agree that they might not be ideal for the formation and may be ineffective. But like Ryan5UW, those are issues we'll have to live with this season. I think you ask Harrell and Jolly to drop some weight, turn some of the fat to muscle and give them a shot at DE. Pickett will be solid at NT. Not a long term solution (maybe no one on the line is) but I have feeling that Thompson and Capers will be making additions as they become available. If Igor or Chris Canty want a chance to start in Green Bay, that might happen. If Raji falls into their lap and they like him, that's another piece. But there are limited players available for this scheme and the building of this D will take multiple seasons.

ETA: I do really like Cole for NT, though. Jenkins could be Ty Warren if he's open to it. My hope is someone from Jolly, Montgomery and Harrell step up to become the other DE. That is, if we can't land one in FA.

[automatic44]

I really don't think you can just go into the draft with the mentality that we'll take certain positions in certain rounds just because we need them. you still have to look what value is on the board. I don't want to take a NT just because we have a need for one, and end up passing on someone else who may not cover a need, but could end up being a really good player. yea, we are starting a new scheme, and we have holes to fill, but don't be surprised if we see most of the same starters from this previous season starting again this year. it's possible we may not even draft a NT this year. the talent just is not there.

[MadCityBucky]

What do you guys think about trading down? Would you be pissed if TT traded down with these players available?

Malcolm Jenkins
B.J. Raji
Everette Brown
Brian Orakpo

[ReasonablySober]

What do you guys think about trading down? Would you be pissed if TT traded down with these players available?

Malcolm Jenkins
B.J. Raji
Everette Brown
Brian Orakpo

Depends who they get.

[Ill-yasova]

"If the center can block the nose tackle by himself, the 3-4 defense goes nowhere."

This quote worries me the most. Pickett struggled maintaining position on the line of scrimmage last year. He mafe alot of his tackles 3-4 yards downfield because he couldn't handle a single blocker by himself, much less two. Last year may have also been the worst short yardage run defense I have seen in years, again another sign that your tackle isn't holding up. I think that if we go into this season with Pickett as our only nose tackle option it's gonna be a really long season.

[automatic44]

I really am not too worried about Pickett as our NT, im more worried of his health. I really don't think Pickett had a bad year last year, despite playing with nagging injuries for most of the season. The problem was Jolly didn't show up, and Williams and Jenkins were gone. Pickett was getting doubled all year, and the fact that he made a lot of tackles down the field is mainly because he stays with the play in pursuit unlike most lineman in the league. Pickett is a stout player and is very capable of just holding his ground and eating up space.