Danny wasted money and roster spots last offseason

[Celts09]

http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=4986596
amare to okc
smith and hill to celtics
tony, giddens, scal to suns with jeff green and mason with some future draft picks

[billfromBoston]

Eddies has been great playing SG! At PG he is terrible! But I agree with TA. We need to get rid of him because he is just killing this team...

POB is a waste of a rosters space. As is Giddens. I still think Sam can help this team...

All in all, Danny had a horrible off season. He didn`t sign anyone who could help this team! Not even one veteran player. And supposedly they all want to play for us...

I just hope he doesn`t count too much on players to get bought out...it is way too risky. He needs to make a trade or two...

Birdman, you and a number of other posters are missing a key element in this debate - its not about saving money in year 3 or 4 of Posey's deal - its about spending that money on Posey or spending it on another mid-level FA this off-season and/or the following.

As clutch as Posey was, he is not a consistent offensive threat, is declining defensively, and cannot serve as a focal point for the role players to play off of. The team would be better served having a true 6th man that the Celtics role playing bench players can play around and get easier shots.

By not signing Posey the team has left itself the option of spending the MLE on a player of greater impact - this team isn't the yankees and this isn't baseball - with a salary cap and luxury tax, Ainge has to be wise with whom he pays - my guess is that the team is going to go hard after a veteran Big Man and then give Gabe Pruitt a true shot at holding down the backup PG role next season while signing a veteran 3rd stringer.

Ainge made offers to many veterans this past off-season and there was plenty of interest coming Boston's way - the fact that he turned them all down after making very modest offers speaks to his opinion of their value relative to other options - same applies to Mutombo...so while we may all be sweating over the losses to Cle/LA/SA and going nuts over what could have been, it is clear that Ainge has specific alternatives in mind that we don't hold information on...

Call his strategy a failure when the team gets beat in the playoffs because they are lacking in X/Y/Z area - until then, this team is still a work-in-progress with 30 regular season games to go...

Bill- here is what I am not understanding, and I would be more than happy to be proven wrong. How is Boston leaving itself the option of using the MLE by not signing Posey? Is not the MLE an annual thing regardless of if you use it in full every year? I have stated repeatedly that this is not about what Posey is worth to any other team than the Celtics and I'm not talking about "feel good Stuff" here. In totality Ray Allen is not a $20 million player who warranted trading the #5 overall pick, Delonte West and a smaller, shorter contract in Sczcerbiak for. There were people calling it an horrendous trade and for maybe any other team in the NBa it would have been atrocious. But when coupled with the Garnett trade, it uniquely becomes a trade that helped secure a championship. The Celtics could have Jeff Green, Brandon Roy and Al Jefferson but guess what, nobody wants to trade the title back for them. So now let's apply this to James Posey. First off I could care less what he is doing in New Orleans or if the trade would have resulted in the disaster for the Grizzlies and he wound up being the 11th man there. I also could care less about James Posey had the Celtics let him go, with a firm plan of successful replacement by now. But with full knowledge that the Celtics options to improve are severely limited, I believe Posey (and all of the chemistry he brings to the table) brings to the Celtics a crucial need. All you needed to see was Matt Freakin Bonner look like Dirk Nowitzki to see that or watching the Celts give confidence to the Lakers by losing a game that would have been won with Posey. With the gap so close between LA. Cleveland and Boston, the lack of Posey or a suitable replacement could cost the Celtics a championship and when you reflect years from now will you be glad about saving $25 million? I'm already taking heat on this board for giving Ainge till March 1st for these specific alternatives you speak of. I'm not giving up at all. But please explain from a talent standpoint why signing Posey to the MLE will hinder the Celtics from signing another player to the MLE next year and therefore getting this player of greater impact? Posey and McDyess next year...why couldn't you have had both? Bill Walker develops and puts Posey on the bench in year 4? Well if it gives Posey more time to polish his 2008/9 Celtic ring I really don't care. From a talent standpoint having a few $6 million contracts on the roster that will expire in 3-4 years for a championship level team is not a bad thing except for the owners' wallets. The Cavs are in the discussion for Amare Stoudemire for this reason. I submit that unless I am wrong about the MLE being available annually, the Celtics would get the effect of printing their own money by creating their own expiring contract down the road and creating chips they don't currently have. The Celtics championship was built on Wally's short-term and Ratleff's expiring contract, let's not forget that. Please help me to understand strictly from a talent standpoint.

Great list of questions - inspired me to write a feature article on C'sblog...should be posted in the next day or two...

[elrod enchilada]

Excellent piece on CelticsBog, BfB.

As I see it, one other problem with the Posey situation was that Posey was a 3, and with Powe's emergence it looked like he would be mostly a 3, limiting his minutes. That is paying a lot of $$$ for a guy playing 12-15 mpg at age 34. I understand why Danny would take a pass, and use his chips elsewhere or in 2009 and 2010. Especially when he had bodies that could be adeqaute sliding over to the back-up 3 slot.

The other point I would add is this: The Cs bench right now consists of two undersized 4s and two 2s, each with strengths and weknesses. None of the four is starting caliber, but each of them is adequate in a limited role. The 10th man, Scal, can defend either forward spot, but is a 10th man otherwise. They are adequate as a bench, at their positions.

Missing from the (active rotation) bench are a back-up center and point guard. Missing in toto. This is what is hurting the team, and could prove fatal in the playoffs. We can second-guess Danny for failing to address these issues in the off-season, but he obviously did not see any talent out there that captivated him, and probably thought he could get a PJ or Cassell type deep in the season like last year. We shall soon see. Let's hope so.

In retrospect, a two-year deal to Chris Andersen would have really helped. But that could be said to lots of GMs in the league.

[Celtsfan1980]

I've never seen a message board which overrates a player as much as this one. His defense is on the decline, and his shooting was very erratic(sp?). He'd go 2-for-8 along with his 6-for-9 games. New Orleans isn't any better this season with him, and the Celtics haven't dropped much at all. Needing 7 vs. the Hawks shows how when one of the top 3 goes into a big slump, the team wasn't all that good even with Posey on the bench. He was great in game 4 and 6 vs. the Lakers, and I recall a game vs. the Pistons where he played very well, but if they had been eliminated in game 7 vs. Cleveland nobody here would be saying he's worth $7 million.

[billfromBoston]

Chris Anderson took the Denver offer - Boston offered the same money, CA chose loyalty to the organization that gave him his shot...nothing to be done there...

Don't forget that Sam Cassell is STILL on this roster - its easy to completely write him off because he struggled with the team system last year and shot too much - but he was a very effective player in LAC leading up to that trade and it makes strategic sense to sit him and give Gabe developmental minutes during the regular season.

If Boston can't upgrade PG with a Marbury or some other impact player, I 100 percent believe it will be an improved and fresh Cassell manning the backup PG minutes come playoff time, 10-15 minutes a night isn't going to kill him and his shooting and ability to play the 1 or 2 situationally will ensure ball-handling, playmaking, and shooting on the court at all times when used in a rotation with the others.

Scals play this year, especially the month leading up to his concussion, was a very underrated development as well - while he is not an ideal center he is longer than Powe and Davis and has a very reliable outside shot. He isn't much on the boards, but his defensive ability at 3 positions is an asset to this team.

i believe Scal and Cassell can do an adaquate job of adding the "missing pieces" the team is searching the marketplace for. They are positions that the team would certainly upgrade if given the chance, but their skill sets fit exactly what the team is looking for.

So, don't count out the current roster's ability to improve from its current state with these two in mind - it may not be ideal, but its better than what we've had to date and we're not too far from being the favorite again...

[Celtsfan1980]

All you needed to see was Matt Freakin Bonner look like Dirk Nowitzki to see that or watching the Celts give confidence to the Lakers by losing a game that would have been won with Posey. With the gap so close between LA. Cleveland and Boston, the lack of Posey or a suitable replacement could cost the Celtics a championship and when you reflect years from now will you be glad about saving $25 million?

If they had used the MLE on Posey, House would not have been signed. House shot very well in the Lakers game, so they may have played worse. They also went through time periods last season where their defense was average at best(the West road trip comes to mind), so it's not like it's something new for the team.

[Golabki]

I have to agree that the House signing looks like a mistake. First off, our roster has 4 PGs, which is just more than you need. Pruitt should have been given a chance early and Cassell used at the end of the year. The last roster spot should have gone to a vet center like Jake Voshkul or Ratliff or somone like that. It seems especially bad since the MLE was used. Not to mention the fact that there are about 20 guys who go undrafted every year that basically do what House does (great pure shooter with PG size, SG skills), but slightly worse.

The fact that it took more than in the min to sign Tony is interesting. Could be because the celtics were actually bidding against a real team. However, with the celtics roster constructed as it is, I would think that using the MLE to add one impact player (ie a ligit 6th man) and just filling in the holes with whatever is left makes more sense.

All that said... I don't believe Posey would have been a better choice. His man-to-man D is overrated at this point in his career, and he would have been straight bad by the end of that contract.

[celtxman]

Birdman, you and a number of other posters are missing a key element in this debate - its not about saving money in year 3 or 4 of Posey's deal - its about spending that money on Posey or spending it on another mid-level FA this off-season and/or the following.

As clutch as Posey was, he is not a consistent offensive threat, is declining defensively, and cannot serve as a focal point for the role players to play off of. The team would be better served having a true 6th man that the Celtics role playing bench players can play around and get easier shots.

By not signing Posey the team has left itself the option of spending the MLE on a player of greater impact - this team isn't the yankees and this isn't baseball - with a salary cap and luxury tax, Ainge has to be wise with whom he pays - my guess is that the team is going to go hard after a veteran Big Man and then give Gabe Pruitt a true shot at holding down the backup PG role next season while signing a veteran 3rd stringer.

Ainge made offers to many veterans this past off-season and there was plenty of interest coming Boston's way - the fact that he turned them all down after making very modest offers speaks to his opinion of their value relative to other options - same applies to Mutombo...so while we may all be sweating over the losses to Cle/LA/SA and going nuts over what could have been, it is clear that Ainge has specific alternatives in mind that we don't hold information on...

Call his strategy a failure when the team gets beat in the playoffs because they are lacking in X/Y/Z area - until then, this team is still a work-in-progress with 30 regular season games to go...[/quote]Bill- here is what I am not understanding, and I would be more than happy to be proven wrong. How is Boston leaving itself the option of using the MLE by not signing Posey? Is not the MLE an annual thing regardless of if you use it in full every year? I have stated repeatedly that this is not about what Posey is worth to any other team than the Celtics and I'm not talking about "feel good Stuff" here. In totality Ray Allen is not a $20 million player who warranted trading the #5 overall pick, Delonte West and a smaller, shorter contract in Sczcerbiak for. There were people calling it an horrendous trade and for maybe any other team in the NBa it would have been atrocious. But when coupled with the Garnett trade, it uniquely becomes a trade that helped secure a championship. The Celtics could have Jeff Green, Brandon Roy and Al Jefferson but guess what, nobody wants to trade the title back for them. So now let's apply this to James Posey. First off I could care less what he is doing in New Orleans or if the trade would have resulted in the disaster for the Grizzlies and he wound up being the 11th man there. I also could care less about James Posey had the Celtics let him go, with a firm plan of successful replacement by now. But with full knowledge that the Celtics options to improve are severely limited, I believe Posey (and all of the chemistry he brings to the table) brings to the Celtics a crucial need. All you needed to see was Matt Freakin Bonner look like Dirk Nowitzki to see that or watching the Celts give confidence to the Lakers by losing a game that would have been won with Posey. With the gap so close between LA. Cleveland and Boston, the lack of Posey or a suitable replacement could cost the Celtics a championship and when you reflect years from now will you be glad about saving $25 million? I'm already taking heat on this board for giving Ainge till March 1st for these specific alternatives you speak of. I'm not giving up at all. But please explain from a talent standpoint why signing Posey to the MLE will hinder the Celtics from signing another player to the MLE next year and therefore getting this player of greater impact? Posey and McDyess next year...why couldn't you have had both? Bill Walker develops and puts Posey on the bench in year 4? Well if it gives Posey more time to polish his 2008/9 Celtic ring I really don't care. From a talent standpoint having a few $6 million contracts on the roster that will expire in 3-4 years for a championship level team is not a bad thing except for the owners' wallets. The Cavs are in the discussion for Amare Stoudemire for this reason. I submit that unless I am wrong about the MLE being available annually, the Celtics would get the effect of printing their own money by creating their own expiring contract down the road and creating chips they don't currently have. The Celtics championship was built on Wally's short-term and Ratleff's expiring contract, let's not forget that. Please help me to understand strictly from a talent standpoint.[/quote]

Great list of questions - inspired me to write a feature article on C'sblog...should be posted in the next day or two...[/quote]Have you written the blog yet and could you post the link. Thanks - looking forward to reading

[contract]

Posey was at what will be the peak value of his career this off-season after the championship run and significant national exposure, he's been decent this year but if this was a contract year for him and NO gets bounced early in the playoffs there is no way a team would give him that same contract based on what he has done this year.

And if the Celtics also get bounced early, I'm sure those millions they saved will make you feel better. Posey may have been a role(s) player, but it is a role that is now left unfilled. What is happening in Boston in 2011 that is more important than maximizing the remaining quality seasons of the Big 3?

Mychal Thompson was just a role player too, and I don't know of a Lakers fan that can tell you what his salary was or how long his contract ran ... but they can tell you who won the 1987 NBA Finals.

[billfromBoston]

What?

Boston's perimeter shooting is one of its strongest assets...Eddie House and Brian Scalabrine make up a sizable portion of the bench minutes over the past 2 months of the season - up until Scal's injury he was looking to be in a 3 man rotation with Powe and Davis - almost ensuring one of the three will have an impact in the game.

Eddie House is easily averaging around 20 mpg on average when he's having his explosive games and there is room for him to carve out a consistent niche if the team gets a true play-maker at the point - Rondo mixing more with the 2nd unit is a part of this inner-team transition that some of us have been calling for.

The biggest need was a 4/5 who could shoot consistently and while they haven't found that, they began to get quality two-way minutes from Scal before he went down, so size is still somewhat of an issue but KG/Perk/Scal/Davis/Powe is a pretty decent complement of skills and ability overall - so what they lack in height they make up for in depth and versatility...team would take an longer Big with all the skills rolled into one, but we haven't seen these 5 as a unit at their best either.

Posey's wing shooting and defense accounted for roughly 10-12 minutes a game last year on most occassions. His PF minutes have been more effectively taken by Davis/Powe/Scal - Pierce and Ray have taken the differential at SF when needed and the the team has Eddie House vying for more minutes at the two right when Sam Cassell should be activated - minutes at wing pretty full.

They've got shooting, what they lack is a interior offense off post-up and more floor spacing from the 4/5, which Scal may fill with more minutes for KG at center in those situations. There are many lineup combos that this team can use in the frontcourt which covers most match-ups except a team that has 2+ interior big offensive players - then its up to the bench trio's scrappyness and the starters foul situation...more precarious, but not deadly...

[celtxman]

Great list of questions - inspired me to write a feature article on C'sblog...should be posted in the next day or two...[/quote]

Bill would really like to see if you posted anything on this - is there a link?