PHX/ATL Trade Idea

[fo_o_fo_404]

Let me preface by saying that this is an idea to gauge what kind of interest that, we as fans, would share in this idea.

I've thought long and hard about this deal, so it is mature in thought and I'm not shooting off silly trade deal ideas. Ok....here it is. And this trade works on ESPN's Trade Machine.

ATL trades:

Mike Bibby
Marvin Williams

PHX trades:

Shaquille O'Neal

Now, I know this is not likely to happen. But would this trade be a good idea? I'm of the thinking that it would because we are obviously in need of a big that can score and rebound. And Shaq does both things well...still at 36. Also, I think that bringing in Shaq will instantly make us a contender to go deep in the playoffs...and maybe even to the Eastern Conference Finals.

The ultimate question I had for Bibby was...."Does Bibby take our team to the next level?" Yes, he's been very good from the 3pt line and a very good floor general, but he's a huge defense liability and his better playing days are behind him. Match Bibby up with the other PG's that are in playoff contention, and he will struggle vs. each and every one of them. Plus, I'm not sure that the Hawks will re-sign him after this season anyway. It would really depend on what he does in the playoffs...and I don't see our team getting past the first round again with the empty hole we have in the middle.

As for Marvin, he's a thrown in. To make the numbers work. And to prevent from having another Childress situation this summer....which is where this is heading.

Shaq on the other hand brings instant credibility. I see how Joe struggles to carry the offensive load and how non-vocal he is as being labeled "the franchise" or the leader of the team. Shaq would make it easier on everyone. He's a load to handle inside, he's been hitting his FT's (his FT% this season is better than Josh Smith's), and he's a great passer. And Shaq is known for taking it up another level in the playoffs. Yes, we compromise our "future" in the long term, but in 2010, the Hawks would have almost $35 million in cap space (assuming JJ explores the FA market)...and that's when the bigger name players will be available. Shaq brings the hardware and would give opposing teams nightmares cause he's unstoppable.

Now, I know the next question is.....where's the PG in this situation? Well, in my scenario, I would have Flip and Joe share the ballhandling duties, while bringing Acie off the bench. I mean, Joe already averages almost an assist more per game than Bibby, so his role would be changed as much. Just lesser of a burden to carry this team, which he can do, but not on a nightly basis. I'd shift Smoove back to a 3, and Horford at the 4, and bring Zaza in to back up Shaq. So the lineup would look like this:

PG: Flip/Acie
SG: JJ/ Mo Evans
SF: Smoove/
PF: Horford/Solo
C: Shaq/Zaza

Speedy Claxton should retire cause he's just rotting on our bench. The Hawks should do what the Kings did with Shareef Abdur-Rahim and see if they can get some money back to go sign a quality three to back up Smoove. Plus you've got wasted roster spots in West, Gardner, Hunter and Morris....that's about $1.5 million that could be used in other places.

Comments? Again, I'm not saying that it will happen...or even should happen. Just an opinion. If faced with the question...if you had Bibby and Shaq stabnding right in front of you and you had to pick a player to go in he playoffs with...who would you choose...Bibby? .......Or Shaq? Which will take you farther in the short-term?

[JoshB914]

I don't think we can't get rid of Bibby unless we are getting a solid PG in return. No one on the roster means more to our success than him.

Based on our current team, I would want to roll with him in the playoffs rather than Shaq.

[fo_o_fo_404]

I don't think we can't get rid of Bibby unless we are getting a solid PG in return. No one on the roster means more to our success than him.

Based on our current team, I would want to roll with him in the playoffs rather than Shaq.

I respect your POV. As far as the $$$ goes, we'd have to do a two for one deal. The Suns aren't gonna send us Nash. Phoenix is looking to dump cash...and get back to where they were when D'Antoni was there. That means that either Amare or Shaq has to go...and in a run and gun offense, Amare's a beast. Shaq is more suited for a half court game...which seems to be what Woody wants to run...with all those iso's.

Now, in the East...let's put Bibby up against the top eight teams PG and see how they match up:

Boston: Rondo (we already know how that will turn out)
Cleveland: Mo Williams
Orlando: Anthony Johnson (this may be one where Bibby could win. But with Nelson, NOT!)
Detroit: AI/Stuckey
Miami: Chalmers (this kid is NICE. Bibby could use vet savvy)
Milwaukee: Session (this kid is NICE. Bibby will use vet savvy)
Philly: Andre Miller
NJ: Devin Harris

Maybe....maybe Bibby can win 2-3 of these matchups. But his lack of defense WILL be exposed.

Now, the flipside....let's put Shaq up against the top eight teams C's and see how they match up.

Boston: KG (no match inside. KG would have to be a perimeter guy. Kendrick Perkins would foul out)
Cleveland: Ilgaukasas/Wallace
Orlando: Superman Jr. ( the daddy would teach the youngster a lesson)
Detroit: Rasheed Wallace (Sheed doesn't like playing the post)
Miami: JO
Milwaukee: Bogut
Philly: Dalembert
NJ: Brook Lopez

Shaq's got all eight...hands down! Even at 36, he's still got it...and still demands double and triple teams which would leave players wide open for shots (See Miami 2006)

[td00]

I like the idea of having Shaq in the playoffs, but you don't have anyone to take Bibby's slot.
You have to have someone in place unless you are considering Flip and moving Acie up in the rotation? You also have to slot Smoove to the SF, which has been discussed here numerous times.

You then have:

Shaq/Al/Smoove/JJ/Flip

I don't know if that will make us any better than keeping Bibby and we don't have to pay Shaq another year.

[D21]

...he's been hitting his FT's (his FT% this season is better than Josh Smith's)...

He's better than Smith, but having both on the same lineup when we already are one of the worst team in the league in FT% would kills us.

Talking about the "next level", I think that Bibby brought us to the next level, but there's another one to be a serious contender. Adding Shaq can bring to this next level, but adding him at the price of Bibby would put us at the "last year next level", the same level we are now.

IMO, we need Bibby. If had to trade for Shaq, I would give Marvin, Zaza, Speedy and Acie, but not our PG. Without Bibby, we are not sure to be on the same level than BOS, CLE or ORL, and it's a risky move.

Ad even if Bibby doesn't win all his matchups, I will certainly help Joe and other winning their matchups.

[dms269]

Shaq can't play 35 minutes per game for us and not be injured.

If you are going to compare the shaq v.s. top centers, you have to do the same with Flip against the top pg's (which would be worse than Bibby) and Smith against the faster sf's.

Improve one position to kill yourself at 2 makes no sense.

[Rod700]

I would love to have Shaq. I think is a perfect fit to sure us up inside in a three man rotation with Hortford coming off the bench. I'd even be willing to let Marv go for him. Having said that, I agree that we couldnt' give up Bibby without getting a point guard of equal caliber back. We'd lose all team chemistry. I don't see how we could pull the trade off without including Bibby though. Perhaps a third team needs to be included to provide us with a pass first point guard.

[Rod700]

^^^The only way I could see a trade for Shaq working money wise (without giving up Bibby) is to trade:

Marv, Speedy, Zaza, Randolph, Solo for Shaq

w/rookie picks possibly being included.

Trade ID #5024623

I don't think that is a route the Suns want to go though unless they just decide to rebuild.

[mr_grabb]

Gotta admit that a legitimate force in the post is definitively something you need if you want to reach the Finals, but it's really not as crucial as a good pg. It's been said and proven over and over, if you do not have a top tier point to run your defense, you'll be hitting the greens sooner than later.

[Rod700]

^^^The only way I could see a trade for Shaq working money wise (without giving up Bibby) is to trade:

Marv, Speedy, Zaza, Randolph, Solo for Shaq
w/rookie picks possibly being included.
Trade ID #5024623

I don't think that is a route the Suns want to go though unless they just decide to rebuild.

Actually, if they were to embrace rebuilding, I would try to throw in Bibby and a couple of 1st rounders to make the trade above work with Nash and a couple of Phoenix 2nd rounders.

[Harry10]

i love the trade idea. Flip can handle the point, but i wouldn't start Horford, with Shaq's age and Smoove's fouls, it would be better if Horford came off the bench as a back up center and PF and just have all three guys average less than 30 minutes per game, and keep all three guys rested and out of foul trouble.

we all know what Shaq can do for ISO shooting guards like Joe, and that is a team that can beat the Celtics and Cavs.

i love the trade, but i would love this one even more:

PHX gets: Bibby, Zaza, Speedy, and 1st round pick

ATL gets: Shaq and Barbosa

[fo_o_fo_404]

Well...seems like Cleveland is trying to get Shaq.

If that happens, Cleveland's my pick to win it all! Shaq in the East would dominate...again! And if they pair him with LeBron....OMG! That's sick!

Like I said earlier, Shaq will get you more in the short term than Bibby will. Shaq just brings more to the table. And let's not forget, he does have four rings...and every team he has been on, for the exception of Phoenix, he has taken to the NBA Finals.

If the move were made, Shaq/Joe's money come off the books in 2010....and the Hawks will have beaucoups of money to throw at the mega-star list who will be in free agency by that time. As far as PG's are concerned, last I checked...Championship are won from the inside out....not the outside in. A good PG is necessary, but like I said JJ is averaging more than an assist more than Bibby this season anyway...so......

I just don't see Bibby being the "end all" of this team. A very good piece, yes, but to bring in someone of Shaq's caliber...especially to the East....you gotta make that move. Albeit, it IS a short-term move....but nevertheless, it would show me, as a fan, that the Hawks want to go DEEP in the post-season and WIN NOW!

[JoshB914]

None of our players have taken a huge step from last season when we won 37 games. Some of our role players have improved (Marvin, Zaza), our stars have been fairly erratic (Joe/Smoove), and we are a little deeper (Flip/Mo) but by no means have a reliable bench.

So what is it that helped us make the jump from a 37-win team to a potential 50-win squad fighting for home floor in a much more competitive EC? It's Mike Bibby! And I just don't feel comfortable dealing away a piece that is so valuable to us.

[fo_o_fo_404]

None of our players have taken a huge step from last season when we won 37 games. Some of our role players have improved (Marvin, Zaza), our stars have been fairly erratic (Joe/Smoove), and we are a little deeper (Flip/Mo) but by no means have a reliable bench.

So what is it that helped us make the jump from a 37-win team to a potential 50-win squad fighting for home floor in a much more competitive EC? It's Mike Bibby! And I just don't feel comfortable dealing away a piece that is so valuable to us.

Potentially a 50 win team...potentially. Mind you, we have the second toughest schedule with 28 games remaining. I don't think we will get to 50. Maybe 45-46. Ok...I can respect your POV about what you are saying that Mike Bibby is the single-most force that propelled us where we are currently. But Shaq in the East....especially when motivated in the playoffs....is a BEAST!

In value....we can agree to disagree.

Shaq>>>>>>>Bibby