Memo to Lakers: STOP Over-helping

shobe_81 · Post #1 » by **shobe_81** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 7:30 am

Ok I'm getting sick of it and yes I needed to make this thread because it's now becoming part of our defensive scheme.

There's playing defense and then there is "trying to play defense. I cannot believe my eyes the countless times the Lakers have ended up giving the big 3 because of the help-defense, they freaking help on every play and always end up giving the 3 to the opposing team, when are we gonna learn?

Oh and stop giving up the lead every time, does Fish always have to remind the team of Game 4 of the finals?

Bad habits become part of your game, if you don't fix them now, then they're surely gonna be your staple let down in the playoffs.

Fellas agree with me?

Dr Aki · Post #2 » by **Dr Aki** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 7:36 am

looked like an early season game

the hornets know how to fight against the SOS defense, so theyre doing it and its all execution from them

however, it was good to see that the lakers changed it up in overtime by doubling chris paul much earlier and forcing it out of his hands and into other players and then fish playing ball deny on paul...

seeing as paul got wherever and whenever he wanted on the high screen and roll

double has to happen, and when that happens you make sure your defense returns to its original assignments without causing too much breakdown

the rest is up to the opposition team and they played pretty much a perfect 4th quarter to come within a bonehead play of CP3 from winning it in which they just pure and simply executed

id much rather blame tonights performance of the second unit's defense, wow they played pretty horrible, especially sasha and farmar

slifersd · Post #3 » by **slifersd** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 7:45 am

Other than the terrible defense we displayed tonight, i think another big problem the Lakers need to be work on is the bench. We used to be able to win games with our bench and now our bench blows a big lead every time they get into the game. Vujacic has played like absolute crap this season. I knew we should have used that money to keep Turiaf instead of him. Farmar is not doing that much better either. Hopefully, we can take advantage of the economy and sign us some good veterans on the cheap to boost our backcourt bench this summer because i do not want to watch Vujacic pretending that he is actually a great shooter.

shobe_81 · Post #4 » by **shobe_81** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 7:52 am

I swear the only way Sasha plays well is with Kobe in the game at the same time. Phil has to realize that Sasha cannot perform without Kobe in there. Kobe has to get the attention and get Sasha wide open looks, that's the only way I see Sasha getting out of his slump.

And the Lakers HAVE to add some size down low on the Bench. Josh Powell won't cut it, he's a decent rebounder but he cannot get it done against strong big men. He's a mid-range shooting PF.

I'm not gonna just hope for Bynum to come back, they need size down low before Pau runs out of gas again heading into the playoffs.

Greed will only get a beat down in the Finals.

B_Y_N_U_M · Post #5 » by **B_Y_N_U_M** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:22 am

Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee................and I thought we won the game!!!!!

Bench gave up the lead...............poor bench play tonight. Now some of you will go making ridiculous trade threads (even though deadline has come and gone) and say who or who not to add and blah blah blah blah blah...........give it a rest a be glad we won the damn game!!!

Post #6 » by **snaquille oatmeal** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:46 pm

our defensive schemes is so retarted that we have the best record in the NBA. dammed you Rambis! :shakes fist:

Patterns · Post #7 » by **Patterns** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:55 pm

snaquille oatmeal wrote:our defensive schemes is so retarted that we have the best record in the NBA. dammed you Rambis! :shakes fist:

No one said that our defensive scheme is "(Please Use More Appropriate Word)".

I agree with the OP. My problem isn't the overhelping. It's the fact that we seem help on everyone even if they aren't a threat to score. I wouldn't be surprised if we double teamed Jacque Vaughn from the Spurs. Also, we need to be smart about who we help off of. Luke, you don't leave Peja or Rasual Butler to help out period. Don't leave the damn 3pt shooters.

G35 · Post #8 » by **G35** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 9:14 pm

Patterns wrote:
snaquille oatmeal wrote:our defensive schemes is so retarted that we have the best record in the NBA. dammed you Rambis! :shakes fist:

No one said that our defensive scheme is "(Please Use More Appropriate Word)".

I agree with the OP. My problem isn't the overhelping. It's the fact that we seem help on everyone even if they aren't a threat to score. I wouldn't be surprised if we double teamed Jacque Vaughn from the Spurs. Also, we need to be smart about who we help off of. Luke, you don't leave Peja or Rasual Butler to help out period. Don't leave the damn 3pt shooters.

Sounds like the Lakers need Shane Battier or at least get the Rockets scouting......

TylersLakers · Post #9 » by **TylersLakers** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 9:45 pm

It is certainly annoying. Doubling players 20 feet from the basket who, if they shot it from there, they'd be calling on a prayer..

Stick to your man, help out when needed.

I find it quite hilarious that last night we doubled David West 20 feet from the basket with Lamar guarding him.. but when Fisher switched onto David West 20 feet from the basket, there was no double or help.

hermes · Post #10 » by **hermes** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 4:48 pm

i love me some 130-120 games

offense please!

Erik Eleven · Post #11 » by **Erik Eleven** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:05 pm

I agree 100%.

Ball pressure by doubling is great. If used only when needed — not as a default strategy.

Sasha left his man Butler to double on the Kiwi at the three point line the other night. Butler made the open three. It happens every game — they leave a primary threat to cover a tertiary threat in off position. It makes me want to run my head through the TV.

Defense has a lot to do with being opportunistic. I'm not talking about gambling for steals. If Mark Madsen is bringing up the ball to initiate the offense, do we really need to double him at the perimeter? Really?

Why not be opportunistic about it instead and leave him alone? Sag off of bigs without a shot, in the high post and on the perimeter! Let them stand there and eat up shot clock and feel uncomfortable for a while. Double someone who is a threat instead, take away his passing options. Don't effing double him! That's about the dumbest thing you can do. Sasha does this on about every possession.

AAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!

Nevertheless, nice win! We have the best record in the league but nobody will remember that unless we win it all. To win it all we have to fix this weakness, now.

Those are my .02

dingclancy · Post #12 » by **dingclancy** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 11:38 pm

They should have a quiz everyday. Double or not? Ask Sasha, then let him reason out.

Patterns · Post #13 » by **Patterns** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 2:22 am

Luke leaving Mike Miller tonight. I was going crazy.

Ryan_ · Post #14 » by **Ryan_** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 4:13 am

I don't know if its the defensive strategy to just let them shoot 3's, but man watching the NOH game it was frustrating watching them leave Rasual Butler open every time, who was on fire. Tonight wasn't much better with Miller, Telfair, etc.

MasterRyu · Post #15 » by **MasterRyu** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:38 pm

I totally agree with the OP. The Lakers are over-helping and forever helping. It seems like they're doubling on every defensive play no matter who the guy is. Not only that, sometimes the wing defender would go down to double down low and lose sight of the guy on perimeter waiting for corner three, forcing a switch. Sasha, Farmar, Fish, and Kobe all do this. Particularly, I've being eyeing Kobe in the last few games on defense, and wow he just simply roams way too much. Roaming on Rondo is fine, but on 3-point shooters..no no. Why can't we just play solid man-to-man defense for a good portion of the game and only double on real threats like Paul Pierce.

Opposing 3-pointers are what is bringing teams cut into our big leads. Opposing 3-pointers are what is turning blowouts into close games. I just cringe at the thought of playing Orlando in the Finals. Luckily, I don't they'll make it.