Future or Present?

NashtyNas · Post #1 » by **NashtyNas** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:35 pm

Well, since Amar'e got injured, it got me thinking really hard. We're not gonna do much in the playoffs this year if he's not playing, and even if he does come back and we make it to the playoffs as the 8th seed (somehow?), it's gonna take time for the team to adjust again, and we'll probably get knocked out in the first round. Does anybody think that we should just call it quits on the season, give lots more time to Dragic and Lopez, and try tanking best we can while still being a bit entertaining to get a half decent pick in this draft? Say we lose 18 out of 28 games. That leaves us at 41-41 and headed to the lottery. Say we get the 10th pick, there are a few very intriguing prospects around that time in the upcoming draft. For example, DaJaun Blair, Earl Clark and Gerald Henderson would all fit our needs (although I'd prefer if we went big, so Henderson shouldn't really be considered). If we draft one of those guys, resign Grant, and pick up a vet big, resign Lou and we'll be set for next year (this is assuming that Dragic, when he gets times, starts to blossom a bit at the end of this season in the next 28 games).

Nash/Dragic/Barbs
J-Rich/Barbs/Tucker
Hill/Dudley/Tucker
Stoudemire/Blair/Lou
Shaq/Lopez/Lou

Personally, I'd like to tank unless there's a set date where Amar'e can return...Then again, it's more likely we'd get the 13th or 14th pick, so what's the point?

Cash · Post #2 » by **Cash** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:04 pm

Payroll-wise, the Suns will be motivated sellers this offseason. Nash & Shaq & Hill aren't getting any younger, and none of them are guaranteed to be on the team next year. The future is now. I don't really think we can make any noise in the playoffs either -- in fact, it'll be a great accomplishment just to make the playoffs w/o Amare -- but there's no point in playing for next year.

Marco Milic · Post #3 » by **Marco Milic** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:12 pm

As one of the many longtime fans who spent the first half of the season depressed as hell, I would give half of my left pinky finger to see them continue playing as they have been under Gentry. With or without Amar'e, I'm excited to watch the games again. I'm on pins and needles waiting for tomorrow's game, in fact. I would much rather see them continue to play each game like their lives depend on it -- Playoffs or not -- than tank just to move up a few spots in the draft order. Boooooooooo.

Cash · Post #4 » by **Cash** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:21 pm

Marco Milic wrote:As one of the many longtime fans who spent the first half of the season depressed as hell, I would give half of my left pinky finger to see them continue playing as they have been under Gentry. With or without Amar'e, I'm excited to watch the games again. I'm on pins and needles waiting for tomorrow's game, in fact. I would much rather see them continue to play each game like their lives depend on it -- Playoffs or not -- than tank just to move up a few spots in the draft order. Boooooooooo.

+1. The last 3 games have been so fun to watch. This is the team I love. This is why I watch.

Post #5 » by **TASTIC** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 7:21 pm

I think this team will be like the last Amare-less team...they'll band together and as a team will FIGHT and scrap like that last team...

The only thing worrying me is this Shaq moping business...

Stix · Post #6 » by **Stix** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 7:26 pm

No Tank. Are you kidding, its pointless. Just keep pushin the ball up the court and feed the scorers. Barbs/JRich can make up for STATs points, just as we all saw last night against the Thunder. Keep on pushin Gentry!

JohnVancouver · Post #7 » by **JohnVancouver** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:18 pm

Marco Milic wrote:As one of the many longtime fans who spent the first half of the season depressed as hell, I would give half of my left pinky finger to see them continue playing as they have been under Gentry. With or without Amar'e, I'm excited to watch the games again. I'm on pins and needles waiting for tomorrow's game, in fact. I would much rather see them continue to play each game like their lives depend on it -- Playoffs or not -- than tank just to move up a few spots in the draft order. Boooooooooo.

+1
If Sarver is in budget mode, we will get much higher picks coming back when he sells off our core guys.

I'm actually anticipating a Disney-movie the rest of the way. much like '06. undermanned, injured, no expectations and these guys will probably surprise someone in the playoffs. Or be absolutely exhausted and lose the first round.

Looking at the sked though, even without Amar'e we should be in the high 40s and close to 50 wins by the end. I haven't looked at what the sked is like for Houston, Dallas etc.

man, I hope Sarver picks up someone for the min. the rest of the year doesn't come to much $$$, even with tax. When you're losing millions, what's a few hundred thou more?

TheMoochinator · Post #8 » by **TheMoochinator** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 9:04 pm

Marco Milic wrote:As one of the many longtime fans who spent the first half of the season depressed as hell, I would give half of my left pinky finger to see them continue playing as they have been under Gentry. With or without Amar'e, I'm excited to watch the games again. I'm on pins and needles waiting for tomorrow's game, in fact. I would much rather see them continue to play each game like their lives depend on it -- Playoffs or not -- than tank just to move up a few spots in the draft order. Boooooooooo.

Best first post EVER ^

Completely sums it up for me and I'm sure many others.

The goal for every NBA franchise should always be to make the playoffs.

And whether we tank or not Dragic, Dudley, Amundson and Lopez are going to have to get minutes regardless due to us being shorthanded and running like crazy.

Post #9 » by **Miklo** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 9:17 pm

I feel the same way. I could never cheer for my teem to lose, and if my team ever does not make a legitimate attempt to win a championship then that is a conflict of interest.

DVN-PHX · Post #10 » by **DVN-PHX** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:51 pm

I dont see any reason why this team can't qualify for a playoff spot...

I honestly think a suns team firing on all cylinders is better than portland, denver and dallas, houston just lost their backcourt, NO and utah arnt playing to the level they were last year..

Barring further injurys i see us making the playoffs, and by that time, STAT should be back

sunsfolife · Post #11 » by **sunsfolife** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:14 pm

JohnVancouver wrote:
Marco Milic wrote:As one of the many longtime fans who spent the first half of the season depressed as hell, I would give half of my left pinky finger to see them continue playing as they have been under Gentry. With or without Amar'e, I'm excited to watch the games again. I'm on pins and needles waiting for tomorrow's game, in fact. I would much rather see them continue to play each game like their lives depend on it -- Playoffs or not -- than tank just to move up a few spots in the draft order. Boooooooooo.

+1
If Sarver is in budget mode, we will get much higher picks coming back when he sells off our core guys.

I'm actually anticipating a Disney-movie the rest of the way. much like '06. undermanned, injured, no expectations and these guys will probably surprise someone in the playoffs. Or be absolutely exhausted and lose the first round.

Looking at the sked though, even without Amar'e we should be in the high 40s and close to 50 wins by the end. I haven't looked at what the sked is like for Houston, Dallas etc.

man, I hope Sarver picks up someone for the min. the rest of the year doesn't come to much $$$, even with tax. When you're losing millions, what's a few hundred thou more?

how great would it be to somehow upset the lakers or spurs???
long shot but who knows

NashtyNas · Post #12 » by **NashtyNas** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:18 pm

Hmm, good points everyone, let's keep the discussion going. I agree that the Suns will fight, but my question is, is it worth it?

PS. Miklo who's the PF in your sig?

Post #13 » by **Miklo** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:22 pm

I made the sig with Amar'e the day before he got injured, so I pasted Googs in!

tigerblood · Post #14 » by **tigerblood** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:56 pm

Has anyone else thought they we may have seen Amare's last game as a Sun? This should be a very interesting summer for Suns fans with the potential for large moves. Do we keep the current roster in tact? Do we make a deal w/ Sacramento and get there pick? Should be interesting.

To answer the original question, I do not want the Suns to tank. This draft is not that great unless you are picking in the top 6 or 7, with that in mind. Missing the playoffs and picking at 12,13, 14 is really not that different from our pick at 19. I think there is potential for a Cinderella story to come out of this, and I think that we will end up winning plenty of games the rest of the season.

Hopefully Amare heals well and can return, but after just reading Truehoop I was not overly confident considering what others have encountered with retinal surgery.

Suns beat Boston 109-108.

JohnVancouver · Post #15 » by **JohnVancouver** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 1:20 am

119-113

Phoenix Suns · Post #16 » by **Phoenix Suns** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 1:27 am

At first I thought hey what a good idea, Amar'e is out so why bother making the playoffs? After watching last nights game though I changed my opinion, the Suns should just play hard and if they make them they make them and if they miss them oh well. Also the Suns are already 31-23 the next team in the west is like 12-13 games back so even if the Suns do decide to tank it wouldn't make much of a difference plus this draft is kind of weak.

albasuna · Post #17 » by **albasuna** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 2:26 am

lets compare 05-06 team w/ 08-09 team.

Diaw
T.Thomas
Marion
Bell
Nash

Barbosa
Jones
House

~after playing well after the break KT went down and was essientially lost for the rest of the year, our defense went down the **** after that. So its a bit like losing Amare.

09 team

Shaq
Hill
J.Richardson
Barbosa
Nash

Barnes
Amundson
Dudley
Tragic

~lost Amare for the year after the break and coaching change.

---------------
The current 09 starting line up looks better than the 06 line up, on paper. Offensively the 06 bench looks a bit better than the 09 bench but IMO 09 bench has better defense.

One thing to keep in mind is that the league was way weaker back in 06.

I don't think we should count ourselves out yet.

Post #18 » by **lilfishi22** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 2:28 am

Our remaining games
BOS - L
CHA - W
LAL - L
TOR - W
LAL - W
ORL - L
MIA - W
HOU - W
SAN - L
DAL - W
CLE - L
OKC - W
GSW - W
PHI - W
WAS - W
DEN - L
UTA - L
POR - W
UTA - L
SAC - W
HOU - W
SAC - W
DAL - L
NOH - L
MEM - W
MIN - W
MEM - W
GSW - W

18-10 through that stretch would give us a record of 49 - 33. I was a little generous when I put W's against playoff teams and I assumed we put away sub .500 teams so I would say realistically our record would be around 46 give or take about 3-4 games. Hollinger's playoff odds thing still predicted we have a better chance at the playoffs than Utah by 4.9% after taking Amare's injury into account. So it's not like we lost all playoff odds even with Amare out.

Tanking at this point in time is pretty useless considering we've already amassed a record of 31-23, at worst if we tank hard we'd finish the NBA season with a record of 36-46. With that record we are still unlikely the crack the top 12 in the draft and with this year's draft not being real strong, a 12th+ pick isn't worth the shame and humiliation of tanking and ending up in the lottery with a lineup of Shaq, Hill, Nash, JRich, Barbs and Barnes.

Despite losing Amare for the regular season other teams are looking just as shaky as we are. We are half game behind 8th spot Utah and about 5.5 games behind from 2nd place Spurs. I don't see us getting 1st round home court advantage but if we could put everything together and play as a team I don't see why we don't have a chance at a 5th or 6th seed. I don't see the Rockets keeping their 5th spot in the playoffs since they basically lost their entire back court to injury or have been traded away and Artest and Yao are too injury-prone to be counted for the rest of the games. With Houston possibly falling to 8th spot or even out of the playoffs we have a chance to sneak into 7th or 8th.

But I personally am not someone who hopes on the downfall of other teams. I'd rather we focus on ourselves and hope we get it together and play the best ball we can play and whatever happens at the end of the regular season happens.

Tanking is not an option.

JohnVancouver · Post #19 » by **JohnVancouver** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 3:28 am

[quote="lilfishi22"]Our remaining games

-- I did the same thing before Stat went down and reckoned we looked likely to go somewhere around what you figured. The losses don't change much - I didn't see us beating LAL, SAN or Celts, but I did think we 'd take Utah - and the wins stay the same. We ought to beat all those teams with or without Amar'e.
If we can put a halt on the matador defense, tighten up the help and run like hell, I agree we can make life miserable for a team or two in the spring.
Having zero expectations on them may be a blessing, though there's no denying that another year is kind of written off and the window has closed considerably.
I know it's early to say, but I kind of hope gentry stays on, we don't do anything drastic for budgetary reasons, draft well and often and give it a whole year one final time.

That said, I'm going to be glued to every game from here to the end, JTV willing

eastsidecrossover · Post #20 » by **eastsidecrossover** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:29 am

No way we tank. Amare can come back, he has played with these guys so there will not be much time needed to get back in senk. I think this team has to go 20-8, and I think they can.

Plus, tanking it most likely will not get us up that higher anyways. The draft is not that deep and I think what you do is make a run, see what happens and see if you can make a solid trade on draft night to move up and unload salary. That to me would be smart.