Pierce and Allen playing time concerns...

BillessuR6 · Post #1 » by **BillessuR6** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 6:18 pm

Paul Pierce last 10 games: 39, 41, 37, 45, 43, 40, 43, 44, 45, 44 = 40,4 mpg (43,0 in last 5)

Ray Allen last 10 games: 38, 35, 43, 47, 34, 38, 19 (injury), 35, 37, 40 = 37,6 mpg (if we take the one with injury out)

One thing Doc talked about before the season was managing "Big 3`s" minutes. With KG (32,2 mpg for the season) I think he has done a good job but he is overplaying Pierce (37,3 mpg) and Ray (36,3 mpg). Sure, Tony being injured most of the season had an impact on that but even when was healthy Rivers had no trust in the reserves.

Of course, there isn`t much on the bench at the backup SG/SF position but I think Doc needs to give Walker or Giddens/Pruitt more minutes, so he doesn`t burn PP and Ray out for the playoffs. Even at the expense of a loss or two...

Luckily, he seems to feel the same way...although I doubt it will happen...

According to the coach, the two All-Stars shouldn’t get used to all that playing time.

“With Tony (Allen) out and Kevin (Garnett) out and Scal (Brian Scalabrine) playing 4 (power forward), that really puts us in a bind,” Rivers said. “Even if I play a Billy (Walker) and a Gabe (Pruitt) and we’re struggling with them in, I’ve got to sit and take it because I can’t burn Paul and Ray out. That’s going to be a tough one.

Link: http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/bask ... _be_given/

MyInsatiableOne · Post #2 » by **MyInsatiableOne** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 6:57 pm

I agree it is a concern but more for the fact that the bench is **** than anything else...

ryaningf · Post #3 » by **ryaningf** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 6:58 pm

I find it odd that in one breath Doc can play his starters into the ground and then in the next say that he really shouldn't do that. Well, Doc, you ARE the coach.

One of my consistent criticisms of Doc's coaching is that while he's great at being consistent (in attitude, rotation, etc...) he lacks CREATIVITY when it comes to problem solving. Finding 3-5 minutes a game to play Bill Walker in the 1st and 2nd halves shouldn't be that hard to do. We've gone too long with Paul and Ray playing upwards of 40 minutes a night, consistently. Even when TA wasn't injured, Doc was leaning too heavily on Ray/Paul.

As I hate to criticize without offering solutions, this is what I'd do: purposely up Rondo's minutes by about 3-5 minutes a game, using him as the bridge in the 1st half. I'd bring Walker in for Pierce around the 4 minute mark of the 1st, and bring House in for Allen around the 2 minutes mark. It's obvious that we'd have to run the offense through Rondo during this period. Then around 9 minutes left in the 3rd, you bring in Gabe and Pierce for Rondo and Walker, and then bring back Ray for House (or Pruitt, depending on who is playing better) around the 6-7 minutes mark of the 2nd, bringing back Rondo at about the 3-4 minute mark of the 2nd half.

The other way you could do it would be to take Rondo out with about 4 minutes left in the 1st (replaced by Pruitt) and bring him back to start the 2nd quarter, at which time Ray and Paul have been replaced by House and Walker. Again, for this 6 minute stretch, you have to run everything through Rondo... Of course, Giddens is interchangeable with Walker if the latter isn't ready to play.

Avalanche · Post #4 » by **Avalanche** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:13 pm

Yeah i hate Doc's rotation and bench management..

There is no way Ray and Paul should be playing 40+ minutes, in the first of a back to back, when we had multiple 15-20 point leads against the suns.

We need to manage these guys' minutes carefully, Surely if you just take them out for 2 minutes at a time, leave the other one out there, there wont be that much of a drop off.

return2glory · Post #5 » by **return2glory** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:23 pm

What was weird to me was the final minutes of the Suns game. With a 1:59 left, the Suns called a time out to take their starters out. We were leading by 19. Doc brought Pierce and Ray back in.

Doc is in a stuff situation because without TA, we don't have a wing player off the bench that Doc trusts. He can decided already that Walker and Giddens aren't going to play. And Pruitt is playing with no confidence out there.

Scalamental · Post #6 » by **Scalamental** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:27 pm

Avalanche wrote:Yeah i hate Doc's rotation and bench management..

There is no way Ray and Paul should be playing 40+ minutes, in the first of a back to back, when we had multiple 15-20 point leads against the suns.

We need to manage these guys' minutes carefully, Surely if you just take them out for 2 minutes at a time, leave the other one out there, there wont be that much of a drop off.

A 15 point lead against the suns vs. the rest of the nba is the equivalence of human years vs. dog years. I think if I heard doc say he was going to use a new '2 minutes at a time leave one out there' routine, I'd seriously worry about the direction of the team.

Avalanche · Post #7 » by **Avalanche** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:34 pm

^ lol well there would obviously be a bit more too it, i just think in spot minutes (not jut the last 45 seconds of the game) you could insert Walker into the line up with Ray, just to get Paul an extra minute or 2 rest and tread water on the scoreboard

Celtics_85 · Post #8 » by **Celtics_85** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:48 pm

If we can get Marbury here with Moore it won't hurt as bad to play Walker with the second unit as Marbury would make it easier for everyone in the second unit.

MyInsatiableOne · Post #9 » by **MyInsatiableOne** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:05 pm

Celtics_85 wrote:If we can get Marbury here with Moore it won't hurt as bad to play Walker with the second unit as Marbury would make it easier for everyone in the second unit.

Given his history of being an excellent passing PG ( :roll:

) how do you figure this?

Celtics_85 · Post #10 » by **Celtics_85** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:24 pm

Pretty easy to figure out, just look at our backup PGs. It is easy to defend Pruitt and House when neither is a threat to drive to the basket. Marbury has a broader offensive game which teams have to pay more attention to him and lets the other players get open much easier than the other two would. Marbury, much like the big three last year, has one thing that has eluded him.

Rocky5000 · Post #11 » by **Rocky5000** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:27 pm

MyInsatiableOne wrote:
Celtics_85 wrote:If we can get Marbury here with Moore it won't hurt as bad to play Walker with the second unit as Marbury would make it easier for everyone in the second unit.

Given his history of being an excellent passing PG ( ) how do you figure this?

If Gabe Pruitt and Eddie House ever average 8 assists per game for their career, you'll have a point.

billfromBoston · Post #12 » by **billfromBoston** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:08 am

I don't think Allen or Pierce have been over-played to date, and their respective effectiveness to this point in the season supports that - Pierce has gotten stronger and Allen is as consistent as ever.

The past month has had more off-days than at any point this season, so the increase in game minutes is acceptable IMO - it cannot continue for the rest of the year, but I highly doubt it will..

Expect to see 6-10 minutes from Walker tonight and same for Pruitt -- if they do a decent job expect it to increase...

nasbahceltic · Post #13 » by **nasbahceltic** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:57 am

billfromBoston wrote:I don't think Allen or Pierce have been over-played to date, and their respective effectiveness to this point in the season supports that - Pierce has gotten stronger and Allen is as consistent as ever.

The past month has had more off-days than at any point this season, so the increase in game minutes is acceptable IMO - it cannot continue for the rest of the year, but I highly doubt it will..

Expect to see 6-10 minutes from Walker tonight and same for Pruitt -- if they do a decent job expect it to increase...

Thats what I'm hoping for. Pierce has played the entire second half of the last couple of games or at least it seems like he has. The fact that Doc says he has to accept Walker and co.'s mistakes more definitely gives the indication that we should see a little more time for Walker in the coming weeks.

Dirty Water · Post #14 » by **Dirty Water** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 7:24 am

MyInsatiableOne wrote:
Celtics_85 wrote:If we can get Marbury here with Moore it won't hurt as bad to play Walker with the second unit as Marbury would make it easier for everyone in the second unit.

Given his history of being an excellent passing PG ( ) how do you figure this?

Because he will score. And Walker/Giddens/Pruitt cannot.

MyInsatiableOne · Post #15 » by **MyInsatiableOne** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:51 pm

Rocky5000 wrote:
MyInsatiableOne wrote:
Celtics_85 wrote:If we can get Marbury here with Moore it won't hurt as bad to play Walker with the second unit as Marbury would make it easier for everyone in the second unit.

Given his history of being an excellent passing PG ( ) how do you figure this?

If Gabe Pruitt and Eddie House ever average 8 assists per game for their career, you'll have a point.

Marbury makes Sam Cassell look like **** John Stockton, so not sure where you're going with this...unless you're only considering his scoring prowess?