UFC 95: Sanchez vs Stevenson (Sat 2/21...Free on Spike)

Moderator: lilfishi22

User avatar
Cammo101
Mr. Mock Draft
Posts: 30,839
And1: 2,007
Joined: Feb 11, 2006
Location: Austin, TX
     

Re: UFC 95: Sanchez vs Stevenson (Sat 2/21...Free on Spike) 

Post#21 » by Cammo101 » Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:30 pm

cowboyronnie wrote:
Cammo101 wrote:I'm 0-2 right now on my picks. It looks like a good night for 10-0 BJJ Black Belt's from Brazil.

That stopage in the Koscheck fight was just awful. Rogan tried to make excuses for that crappy referee, but Koscheck was clearly conscious and moving upward, and Thiago was not even trying to pounce. That was esily one of the worst stoppages I have seen. That was a nice shot by Thiago though.


What??? He was moving upwards cos he was zombified. His eyes were in the back of his head! What are you talking about?


Fighters get a chance to recover, that is MMA 101. He was pulling guard and moving upward. This same ref saw Per Ecklund get put down face face and he allowed him to take 5 unanswered shots before stepping in. Why is it these crappy stoppages always involve no name referees. Guys as good as Koscheck deserve the chace to recover, unless it is a Evans vs. Liddell type of KO, they have to allow the fight to continue. We have seen tons of times where guys take flash knockdowns and then recover and win the fight.

Maybe Kos would have been pounded out, but this taints it for both guys. Kos feels like he got jipped and Thiago is going to hear about a quick stoppage every time the fight is talked about. Bad refing no matter how you slice it.
User avatar
Cammo101
Mr. Mock Draft
Posts: 30,839
And1: 2,007
Joined: Feb 11, 2006
Location: Austin, TX
     

Re: UFC 95: Sanchez vs Stevenson (Sat 2/21...Free on Spike) 

Post#22 » by Cammo101 » Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:33 pm

cowboyronnie wrote:
Chach wrote:I was watching the fight at a bar so I wasn't paying attention to the fight as much as I should have. I saw most of round 1 and I thought Joe won that round. He seemed more aggressive and had the submission hold but I got distracted by conversation during the second and third round. That is why I like watching them alone.


Joe got completely schooled every minute of the fight. Diego was as effective in the first as the second and third. Joe kept committing to those rights, and so had no counter to the uppercut.

**** Chico was holding his right with his palm facing him like he was fighting the Marquess of Queensberry, and Joe couldn't do anything. He was unbelievably quick in the wrestling too.

Diego will be a pound-for-pound king soon. Wait for laugh at Cammo.


Based on an average showing where he never had Stevenson hurt, you think Diego will be the pound for pound king. Florian and BJ Penn pounded this guy into the ground. Diego will be the same gatekeeper mascarading as a contender at 155 as he was at 170. People (Joe Rogan) will continue to make excuses for him losing to every contender, and life will go on as normal.

If he does win a title down there, it won't hurt my feelings any. Just because I point out the he is overhyped and has never beaten a contender does not mean I hate the guy, I just hate the unwarrented hype he got because he won TUF.
User avatar
SpReEfOrAlL
RealGM
Posts: 11,330
And1: 161
Joined: Jul 29, 2002
Location: July 2010!

Re: UFC 95: Sanchez vs Stevenson (Sat 2/21...Free on Spike) 

Post#23 » by SpReEfOrAlL » Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:45 pm

The officiating in the UFC is getting worse and worse. That Kos stoppage was horrible. He was more than set to defend himself. What a joke.
User avatar
CPT
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 14,311
And1: 2,783
Joined: Jan 21, 2002
Location: Osaka/Seoul/Toronto
         

Re: UFC 95: Sanchez vs Stevenson (Sat 2/21...Free on Spike) 

Post#24 » by CPT » Sun Feb 22, 2009 11:27 pm

I think that was one of the English refs they had to use. That's always a problem when the UFC goes outside of its comfort zone of Vegas and California.
User avatar
Cammo101
Mr. Mock Draft
Posts: 30,839
And1: 2,007
Joined: Feb 11, 2006
Location: Austin, TX
     

Re: UFC 95: Sanchez vs Stevenson (Sat 2/21...Free on Spike) 

Post#25 » by Cammo101 » Sun Feb 22, 2009 11:51 pm

CPT wrote:I think that was one of the English refs they had to use. That's always a problem when the UFC goes outside of its comfort zone of Vegas and California.


It was and it is.
User avatar
Chach
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 12,330
And1: 2
Joined: Jan 23, 2003

Re: UFC 95: Sanchez vs Stevenson (Sat 2/21...Free on Spike) 

Post#26 » by Chach » Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:49 pm

cowboyronnie wrote:Great event. But how is the UFC getting so many stand-up fights lately? Such little wrestling. Is it their match-making, is this MMA in 2009, have they been paring down their roster of wrestlers, is everyone trying to be crowd-pleasing?


I have been thinking about this a lot recently and this is what I've come up with:

1)Takedown defense has improved. Watching the old UFCs, a lot of the wrestlers like Coleman could shoot in at will and end fights quickly. Because so many guys have a wrestling background at some point and because MMA is becoming more well rounded, guys are training in wrestling more and you can't simply shoot in. You see fights like the TUF finale where Nover was put on his back at will and you take notice. Also, that gets boring after awhile.

2)I personally find ground and pound boring and the crowds seem to as well. If it is strong and explosive, like after a knockdown or a good throw then everyone gets amped but if a guy spends 3 minutes in the guard, passes to half guard and starts gorilla slamming on the defensive fighter, ehhh. Just like takedown defense has improved, wrist control and hand positioning has improved as well so you can't really pound out a guy if you're in the guard.

3)Match-ups. If both guys have a wrestling or grappling background, they tend to stand more often. You'll get takedowns but they aren't of the effortless variety and then there is just a lot of struggling on the mat. Just like point #1, a good striker who has improved his takedown defense to the point of being able to hold off good (but not world class) wrestlers is going to force the fight to stay on its feet. So it might just be a statistical blip that strikers who have improved TDD have been matched up with wrestler background guys.

4)Money. There is no "decision of the night" bonus, it's Knockout and Submissions that can net you that extra cash. Sure, you could get Fight of the Night but spending 9 minutes of a fight in your opponent's guard won't offer you a chance to win that either. So if you want to make money, wrestling is more of a means to gain positional advantage than to win a fight. Because of this, you're seeing more guys keeping it on their feet, hoping for the knockout. Clay Guida is a pretty well known name in MMA but he was recently on a Spike Fight Night Live and he wasn't even a headliner. I can see him landing on a PPV as maybe the opening fight but he's just not exciting enough to garner more spotlight unless he develops his submission skills to go with his wrestling or his striking improves. People will remember Liddell vs Evans or Jackson vs Silva III. They won't remember the Guida vs Diaz hugfest. People have hard-ons for guys like Maia who have absolutely slick submission skills but not guys who are one dimensional wrestlers.

My personal feeling and prediction is that wrestling will always be a part of MMA and most guys will continue to have a wrestling base. But unless you transfer your talents to the other aspects (like Koscheck has), you will never make the mainstage or big money. Ryan Bader better learn to strike or he will become a FNL mainstay. Wrestling will become more of a means to an end rather than a means to victory.

I also think we saw the future with the Jones vs Bonnar fight. Jones used some absolutely beautiful Greco-Roman throws and trips to gain a positional advantage on Bonnar. I can see grapplers and BJJ guys really developing those Greco-Roman throws because they could be extremely valuable in MMA. Muay Thai is here to stay as one of the main forms of striking and the clinch will always be around so you can use G-R positioning and throws to neutralize what might otherwise be a dangerous position for a grappler who is not as skilled in striking. They will use that wrestling to get the fight to the ground and then use their BJJ to improve positions and go for a submission. Also, those throws are a lot more aesthetically pleasing and enjoyable from a technical aspect than simply shooting in for a single leg takedown. There is a level of technique in takedowns and when you see a really good one you know it but I think the casual fan (I still consider myself one as I've only been watching for about a year) can appreciate a hip throw more than a simple double leg takedown. It's entertaining, effectively neutralizes a strength for your opponent and helps put you in a position to exploit your own strength. I could see BJJ guys working on judo throws more as well. mahalo
~Chach~
damo[23]
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 8,556
And1: 66
Joined: Apr 08, 2005
Location: Retire #25

Re: UFC 95: Sanchez vs Stevenson (Sat 2/21...Free on Spike) 

Post#27 » by damo[23] » Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:22 am

Just watched the event.

Considering this was a free event it was very good, the feed I just watched I got to see what felt like every under card which I rarely get to see [I know it was just due to the fact that only one fight went the distance, and then one other into the 3rd].

ALOT of standup, which was crazy the ammount of KO's.

I like to see a bit more ground, but was good fun.

But you can tell that was a breather event due to them having had so many title fights and even contender fights recently. Still pretty good.

Cant believe Kos got KO'd so quick, and I do think he was KO'd, he was "coming back up" but if the dude had just gone killer on him like he should have then it'd have been a "great TKO". I dont know why he didnt just jump on top of him to G'n'P him.
User avatar
Cammo101
Mr. Mock Draft
Posts: 30,839
And1: 2,007
Joined: Feb 11, 2006
Location: Austin, TX
     

Re: UFC 95: Sanchez vs Stevenson (Sat 2/21...Free on Spike) 

Post#28 » by Cammo101 » Tue Feb 24, 2009 5:36 am

damo[23] wrote:Cant believe Kos got KO'd so quick, and I do think he was KO'd, he was "coming back up" but if the dude had just gone killer on him like he should have then it'd have been a "great TKO". I dont know why he didnt just jump on top of him to G'n'P him.


He may very well have been done, but we never got the chance to find out. No one is saying Koscheck was for sure ready to pop up and fight, we are saying we never got to find out and that is a shame and a bad decision by a no name ref.
damo[23]
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 8,556
And1: 66
Joined: Apr 08, 2005
Location: Retire #25

Re: UFC 95: Sanchez vs Stevenson (Sat 2/21...Free on Spike) 

Post#29 » by damo[23] » Tue Feb 24, 2009 5:28 pm

Cammo101 wrote:
damo[23] wrote:Cant believe Kos got KO'd so quick, and I do think he was KO'd, he was "coming back up" but if the dude had just gone killer on him like he should have then it'd have been a "great TKO". I dont know why he didnt just jump on top of him to G'n'P him.


He may very well have been done, but we never got the chance to find out. No one is saying Koscheck was for sure ready to pop up and fight, we are saying we never got to find out and that is a shame and a bad decision by a no name ref.


I did say to my buddy that if he had just jumped on top of Kos that was just going to be a fairly standard TKO. It wasnt a cut and dry KO, but I dont think it was as much of a deal as people made out.

HOWEVER, the stoppages at 95 did seem a bit quicker than they are normally, or is that just my imagination?

Return to Boxing & Mixed Martial Arts