COUNTDOWN THREAD TO NUMBER 3 ALL TIME CELTIC SCORER

[exculpatory]

The Truth now has 18,110 points for his career. In 135 points. he passes the Chief and becomes third only to Larry Legend and Hondo in Celtic history.

I will update this thread after each game. If he goes at 20 ppg (his current average), he gets there in 7 games (at Miami). If he gets there the game before, it will be AT HOME against the Magic on National TV. If he averages around 23 ppg until then (which he may because he is carrying more of the load - together with Ray Ray - with KG out), he WILL get it done against the Magic.

By the way, he has lost NOTHING at age 31 - he is shooting 45% overall, almost 40% from 3 and 85% from the FT line this year.

We got Marbs very very soon and Mikki. Danny, time to bring in Joe Smith, and we ARE GOING TO WIN ANOTHER BANNER. BOOK IT!

GO GREEN FOREVER. GO TRUTH!

[Kefa461]

One of the All-time Celtic great scorers........

[Celts09]

does point from the playoffs count, not that its gonna take him that long.

GO PIERCE! GO GREEN!

[Joekickass2008]

How many points do Hondo and Larry have?

Would also be curios to know the top 5 triple doubles for the Celtics all time...

[s1ickd]

the cool thing is Paul has tuned his game of late so that athleticism is only a small part of it. you can tell he's practiced layup angles, shot fakes, and hesitation moves to be able to get any shot he wants. he's going to be able to put up 14-20ppg until he's 36 imo, i wonder if that would be enough to get him past Bird?

that's assuming that he resigns, that is....

i hope he'll take less money to play here like reggie miller did in indiana.

[TA42]

He would need 3,681 points (not including playoffs) to catch Larry.

If he stays with the team and stays healthy I'd say he'll catch him.

[exculpatory]

I just happen to know the answer to the question you asked:

1. John Havlicek 26,395
2. Larry Bird 21,791
3. Robert Parish 18,245
4. Paul Pierce = as of 58 games in 08-09 season = 18,110

If Paul finishes this year at 20 ppg (about what he did last year and this year so far - given that he unselfishly shares the load with Ray and KG during some games, and scores less, and sometimes takes the game over, and goes for 25-35 when that is required), then he finishes this year with about 18,600 points.

Barring injury (god forbid):

If he averages 20 ppg next year (a very reasonable assumption) = 1640 points, then he crosses 20K (an awesome accomplishment in its own right) and ends the year at about 20,240.

If he does that again in 2010-2011 (at age 33; his last year under current contract), he gets to 21,880 and just barely passes Larry Legend.

It would be very hard to catch Hondo - Hondo played for something like 17-18 years, and was 1 of the best conditioned athletes in the history of pro sports.

I will wager you anything you want that he will indeed restructure his contract, take less money and sign a final 4 year contract to finish his career at age 37. There is zero doubt that he wants to retire as a Celtic, and that Wyc even more than Danny wants that as well.

Ex

[Joekickass2008]

I just happen to know the answer to the question you asked:

1. John Havlicek 26,395
2. Larry Bird 21,791
3. Robert Parish 18,245
4. Paul Pierce = as of 58 games in 08-09 season = 18,110

If Paul finishes this year at 20 ppg (about what he did last year and this year so far - given that he unselfishly shares the load with Ray and KG during some games, and scores less, and sometimes takes the game over, and goes for 25-35 when that is required), then he finishes this year with about 18,600 points.

Barring injury (god forbid):

If he averages 20 ppg next year (a very reasonable assumption) = 1640 points, then he crosses 20K (an awesome accomplishment in its own right) and ends the year at about 20,240.

If he does that again in 2010-2011 (at age 33; his last year under current contract), he gets to 21,880 and just barely passes Larry Legend.

It would be very hard to catch Hondo - Hondo played for something like 17-18 years, and was 1 of the best conditioned athletes in the history of pro sports.

I will wager you anything you want that he will indeed restructure his contract, take less money and sign a final 4 year contract to finish his career at age 37. There is zero doubt that he wants to retire as a Celtic, and that Wyc even more than Danny wants that as well.

Ex

Thanks.

Does this mean that if PP passes larry at some point then his is better than larry? I joke....a bit. But he has to be one of the best scorers the Celts have seen, if not the best flat out scorer. Doesn't he?

[TA42]

I just happen to know the answer to the question you asked:

1. John Havlicek 26,395
2. Larry Bird 21,791
3. Robert Parish 18,245
4. Paul Pierce = as of 58 games in 08-09 season = 18,110

If Paul finishes this year at 20 ppg (about what he did last year and this year so far - given that he unselfishly shares the load with Ray and KG during some games, and scores less, and sometimes takes the game over, and goes for 25-35 when that is required), then he finishes this year with about 18,600 points.

Barring injury (god forbid):

If he averages 20 ppg next year (a very reasonable assumption) = 1640 points, then he crosses 20K (an awesome accomplishment in its own right) and ends the year at about 20,240.

If he does that again in 2010-2011 (at age 33; his last year under current contract), he gets to 21,880 and just barely passes Larry Legend.

It would be very hard to catch Hondo - Hondo played for something like 17-18 years, and was 1 of the best conditioned athletes in the history of pro sports.

I will wager you anything you want that he will indeed restructure his contract, take less money and sign a final 4 year contract to finish his career at age 37. There is zero doubt that he wants to retire as a Celtic, and that Wyc even more than Danny wants that as well.

Ex

Thanks.

Does this mean that if PP passes larry at some point then his is better than larry? I joke....a bit. But he has to be one of the best scorers the Celts have seen, if not the best flat out scorer. Doesn't he?

I would say that if he passes Larry then he would have to be viewed possibly as a better scorer but as everyone knows, Larry was much more than a scorer.

Also, injuries cost Larry a few years...would have been interesting to see what he ultimately would have finished at.

[Joekickass2008]

Agreed...Larry was much more than a scorer...he was also a fashion Icon (hello.......blonde mullet)....But PP has become more than a scorer of late to....good passer, good defender, good decision maker (mostly) and good leader. I feel PP is on the up as far as decision making and being of value to the Celtics go.

[TheSheriff]

Thanks.

Does this mean that if PP passes larry at some point then his is better than larry? I joke....a bit. But he has to be one of the best scorers the Celts have seen, if not the best flat out scorer. Doesn't he?

I would say that if he passes Larry then he w.ould have to be viewed possibly as a better scorer but as everyone knows, Larry was much more than a scorer.

Also, injuries cost Larry a few years...would have been interesting to see what he ultimately would have finished at.

I wouldn't say he is a better scorer than Larry. Bird had a higher PPG average in his career and at his peak, which is pretty impressive considering that he had to share the ball with guys that needed touches like McHale, Parrish, and Tiny Archibald (which Pierce did have for a large chunk of his career).

As far as scorers on the Celtics go i'd rate pierce ahead of Sharman and Tom Heinsohn, at about the same level as Sam Jones and Hondo, and behind Bird.

[Zin5]

Pierce could end his career as the leading scorer of a franchise that leads the NBA in titles won and there will still be some that don't think he's worthy of the hall of fame. Ridiculous.

[exculpatory]

I used the word "scorer" instead of "player" on purpose.

Bill Russell and Lary Bird are the best "players" in celtic history - and Paul is right there behind them.

As far as "scorers" are concerned, he is hands down the best in celtic history. Even Tommy H, HOF player and coach, who has been around the celtics for almost 50 YEARS and knows basketball better than any of us can ever dream of knowing basketball, has said this over and over and over again. Post up, slashing, drawing fouls, pull up jumper, threes - he does it all....and shoots layups with both hands.

With a banner and finals MVP in his pocket, and his overwhelming stats over his career, he makes the HOF on second ballot. With a second banner, he makes it on first ballot. The Paul Pierce underappreciation group is still out there in the weeds (even on this Celtics chat board), but they are wrong and have always been wrong (as the excellent poster SamIam has pointed out many times). Paul said many times during the drudgery years when he carried horrible teams on his back to the playoffs a few times - "give me a couple studs to play with, and I will bring you a banner". And he did. Aside from scoring, he has always been an awesome rebounder for his size. His playmaking and defense have always been there also - now that he has Ray and KG there - he has the energy to show it on a consistent basis. He is a smidgeon behind Kobe and Lebron as top wings of his generation.

[NES 247]

Pierce is more than scorer, he is just an overall offensive threat. He can drive to the basket, make contact and make the shot. He's solid from the charity stripe. Has a good jumper, has great range and can shoot three's. He'll make offense happen by passing it when doubeled team. As stated for a guy his size he is a helluva rebounder. He can play defense too when he is motivated to. Pierce will go down as one of the best C's ever, if he isn't already. I just think of how he stuck it out with us throughout the bad years, how he had no problem sharing the role of the man when KG and Ray were brought in, he's matured so much, its been fun and great to watch. Paul's got some good years left, so the ride isn't over yet.

[campybatman]

I shall provide some more pertinent information on specifically Havlicek, Bird and Pierce. Some of this is common knowledge.

The following information was taken from: http://www.basketball-reference.com/

In my opinion, Pierce will surpass Bird and finish no worst than second to Havlicek before his career's over. As I'd stated before, I believe Pierce wants to leave basketball on his own terms. Combine this with his interest to someday possibly continue playing basketball overseas. Leaves me to think that Pierce might not play in the NBA beyond his mid thirties. But, who knows...



John "Hondo" Havlicek


School: Ohio State University
Career average in points: 14.6 PPG

NBA
Position: Forward/Guard
Draft selection: 7th pick in 1962
Number of seasons played: 17 (age 22 to 37)
Number of seasons totaling at least 2,000 points: 2 (1970-1971 - 28.9 PPG and 1971-1972 - 27.5 PPG)
Number of NBA championships: 8
Number of times named NBA Finals MVP: 1

Larry "Legend" Bird


School: Indiana State University (initially enrolled at Indiana but later dropped out)
Career average in points: 30.3 PPG

NBA
Position: Forward
Draft selection: 6th pick in 1978
Number of seasons played: 13 (age 23 to 35)
Number of seasons totaling at least 2,000 points: 4 (1984-1985 - 28.7 PPG, 1985-1986 - 25.8 PPG, 1986-1987 - 28.1 PPG and 1987-1988 - 29.9 PPG)
Number of NBA championships: 3
Number of times named NBA Finals MVP: 2

Paul Pierce "The Truth"


School: Kansas University
Career average in points: 16.4 PPG

NBA
Position: Forward/Guard
Draft selection: 10th pick in 1998
Number of seasons played: 11 (age 21- )
Number of seasons totaling at least 2,000 points: 4 (2000-2001 - 25.3 PPG, 2001-2002 - 26.1 PPG, 2002-2003 - 25.9 PPG and 2005-2006 - 26.8 PPG)
Number of NBA championships: 1
Number of times named NBA Finals MVP: 1



Cool factoids:

Havlicek was drafted by both the Celtics and the NFL's Cleveland Browns in 1962. After competing briefly as a wide receiver in the Browns' training camp that year, he focused his energies on playing for the Celtics, with head coach Red Auerbach later describing him as the "guts of the team." He was also known for his stamina, with competitors saying that it was a challenge just to keep up with him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Havlicek



The Boston Celtics selected the 6'9", 220-pound Bird 6th overall in the 1978 NBA Draft, even though they were uncertain whether he would enter the NBA or remain at Indiana State to play his senior season. Bird ultimately decided to play his final college season, but the Celtics retained their exclusive right to sign him until the 1979 NBA Draft, because of the NBA's "junior eligible" rule that existed at that time (allowing a collegiate player to be drafted when the player's original "entering" class was graduating and giving them one calendar year to sign them, even if they went back to college). Shortly before that deadline, Bird agreed to sign with the Celtics for a US $650,000 a year contract, making him at the time the highest-paid rookie in the history of the NBA. Shortly afterwards, the NBA draft eligibility rules were changed to prevent teams from drafting players before they were ready to sign. The rule is called the Bird Collegiate Rule.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Bird



Originally from California, Pierce grew up a Lakers fan. Ironically, hated Danny Ainge as a player. He loves him now.

[TheSheriff]

I used the word "scorer" instead of "player" on purpose.

Bill Russell and Lary Bird are the best "players" in celtic history - and Paul is right there behind them.

As far as "scorers" are concerned, he is hands down the best in celtic history. Even Tommy H, HOF player and coach, who has been around the celtics for almost 50 YEARS and knows basketball better than any of us can ever dream of knowing basketball, has said this over and over and over again. Post up, slashing, drawing fouls, pull up jumper, threes - he does it all....and shoots layups with both hands.

Pierce is a better "slasher" than Bird, but just because he draws fouls better does not make him a better scorer. Prime Shaq had less ways to score than Pierce, but he was still a better scorer.

How many times has Pierce dropped 50? 60?

[exculpatory]

4 comments:

1) I promised I would reactivate this thread when the moment is approaching, and now I am.

2) If THE TRUTH averagaes 22 against the Cavs and the Magic on Friday and Sunday (highly likely since he has been carrying the team averaging 25 or so PPG - with some help from Ray and Rondo - since KG went down), HE PASSES THE CHIEF at 18,245 points, AND BECOMES SECOND ONLY TO BIRD AND HONDO IN POINTS IN THE HSTORY OF THE MOST STORIED TEAM IN SPORTS HISTORY!

3) IT IS ONLY FITTING THAT THIS FEAT MAY WELL OCCUR ON NATIONAL TV - SO CASUAL B-BALL FANS EVERYWHERE WILL BECOME MORE AWARE OF WHAT MANY OF US HAVE KNOWN FOR 8 - 10 years - PAUL PIERCE IS THE MOTHERFFING TRUTH, A TOP 3 WING OF HIS GENERATON, A TOP 3 CLUTCH PLAYER OF HIS GENERATION - AND ONLY A SMIDGEON SEPARATES HIM FROM KOBE AND LEBRON.

4) This is a phenomenal achievement, and should have generated 5000 comments by now and been stickied. The fact that this did not happen is a classic example of the Pierce underappreciation which infests this "Celtic chat board,. and the generalized, utter stupidity of many Celic fans - which is truly patheic.

Ex

P.S. He was absolutely brilliant the other night almost singlehandedly beating the Nets.

P.P.S. Joey baby - you are about to be wrong for the 100000000000000000th time in your illustrious non-career as the most negative, ill informed poster in real GM history. I will have more to shove down your throat on Friday night.

[cisco]

PP might get his 44 points tonight.

[GuyClinch]

How many times has Pierce dropped 50? 60?

Bird didn't drop 50 that often either.<g> I loved Bird but I saw them both - and yes PP is a better scorer. It was a huge deal when Mchale dropped 50 one time as it was a new Celtic record and Bird had to go out and top that. That's how rare that kind of scoring game was for Bird.

Of course part of that is because like now Bird had a good team and didn't need to score 50.. But the other part of that is that while Bird was mostly a shooter (though he could hurt people in the post) PP has the total offensive package. PP has every move in the game down.. Post, mid-range, slashing, shooting..

Bird was the better shooter - but PP is clearly the better scorer. Tommy saw them both as well.

[Celts17Pride]

Bird was the better shooter - but PP is clearly the better scorer.

That pretty much sums it up. Both Bird and PP were winners also.