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Hawks at Nuggets 2/25/09

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Re: Hawks at Nuggets 2/25/09 

Post#41 » by killbuckner » Thu Feb 26, 2009 6:07 pm

tontoz- obviously the Hawks defense is just so impressive that the Nuggets pushed the pace all night to run the Hawks out of the gym but were still unable to score a single point on the fast break.
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Re: Hawks at Nuggets 2/25/09 

Post#42 » by tontoz » Thu Feb 26, 2009 6:09 pm

parson wrote:But to answer your question about boxing out (which I don't think was the problem last night, as I've said), Bobby Knight has always said that man-to-man defense - WITHOUT SWITCHING - is the best way to keep good rebounding position. Maybe, since it's a fact we're switching like crazy, we're unable to get good position. I don't know.

I agree that Smoove doesn't even try (it seems, to me) to block out, at least most of the time, but I don't think Horford or Marvin or Joe do that bad of a job. I DO think Zaza could care less about defensive rebounds, however.

Now, tontoz, for your part, I assume you disagree that DEN tried to up the intensity and run us into the floor last night. I'd love to hear your opinion of what you saw, that is, if you're capable of telling me without using smilies or quoting 82games.com or whatever.


What i saw is the Hawks pushing the ball up the court on the break and frequently pressuring the ball 3 quarters of the court on D. In other words they were doing the exact opposit of what you said they were doing, trying to conserve energy.

Denver was content to play the half court game. They weren't trying to run the break which was surprising since our best fast break defender (Smith) was out.

As far as boxing out goes it isn't just the interior guys who are the problem which you still don't get. If someone takes a perimeter shot there should be a defender somewhere in the area and that defender should box him out even if he is at the 3 pt line. The Hawks NEVER do this. They just stand around and watch the ball hit the rim and then decide whether or not to go for the rebound.
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Re: Hawks at Nuggets 2/25/09 

Post#43 » by tontoz » Thu Feb 26, 2009 6:13 pm

killbuckner wrote:tontoz- obviously the Hawks defense is just so impressive that the Nuggets pushed the pace all night to run the Hawks out of the gym but were still unable to score a single point on the fast break.


I have no idea where he came up with this nonsense. i guess he made this stuff up to try to deflect what he perceived to be criticism of Horford when i complained about the Hawks rebounding problems. That is just speculation though.
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Re: Hawks at Nuggets 2/25/09 

Post#44 » by parson » Thu Feb 26, 2009 6:15 pm

tontoz wrote:You make no sense at all. It was the hawks who were pushing the pace, not Denver. ...

If Denvers game plan was to "run us off the court" they sure did a piss poor job of it since the Hawks outscored them 15-0 on the break.

I said they got their extra rebounds by out-hustling us, rather than by poor rebounding position on our part. You responded that they couldn't have out-hustled us because we outscored them 15-0 on fastbreaks. Is that about it? Do you see yet what you did?

Apparently for you, hustle only applies to fast breaks.

You misread me; then you got angry when I told you you misread me.

Again, to be fair, I do think we pushed the ball in the 4th, but I think we tried to pace ourselves in the 1st 3 periods, when I think DEN tried to raise the energy level and tire us out. I think their extra rebounds came from out-hustling us. Did you see anything different? Rather than telling me that they never block out or what the stats say, did you see anything different than DEN out-hustling us to (mostly) long rebounds?
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Re: Hawks at Nuggets 2/25/09 

Post#45 » by parson » Thu Feb 26, 2009 6:17 pm

And the tag-team terribles are together again!!

Hello, Killjoy, did you run out of insults to heave at Hawks players on the other threads?
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Re: Hawks at Nuggets 2/25/09 

Post#46 » by tontoz » Thu Feb 26, 2009 6:46 pm

parson wrote:
tontoz wrote:You make no sense at all. It was the hawks who were pushing the pace, not Denver. ...

If Denvers game plan was to "run us off the court" they sure did a piss poor job of it since the Hawks outscored them 15-0 on the break.

I said they got their extra rebounds by out-hustling us, rather than by poor rebounding position on our part. You responded that they couldn't have out-hustled us because we outscored them 15-0 on fastbreaks. Is that about it? Do you see yet what you did?

Apparently for you, hustle only applies to fast breaks.

You misread me; then you got angry when I told you you misread me.

Again, to be fair, I do think we pushed the ball in the 4th, but I think we tried to pace ourselves in the 1st 3 periods, when I think DEN tried to raise the energy level and tire us out. I think their extra rebounds came from out-hustling us. Did you see anything different? Rather than telling me that they never block out or what the stats say, did you see anything different than DEN out-hustling us to (mostly) long rebounds?


Rebounding and running are two separate things. if you are trying to say that you were talking about rebounding when you said they were trying to run the Hawks off the floor all i can do is laugh. You are probably the only person on the planet who would equate running to rebounding.

The fastest paaced teams are frequently the poorest rebounding teams.
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Re: Hawks at Nuggets 2/25/09 

Post#47 » by parson » Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:11 pm

tontoz wrote:Rebounding and running are two separate things. if you are trying to say that you were talking about rebounding when you said they were trying to run the Hawks off the floor all i can do is laugh. You are probably the only person on the planet who would equate running to rebounding.

The fastest paaced teams are frequently the poorest rebounding teams.

Yes, I was talking about rebounding. I was responding to what you said about defensive rebounding. You really, really need to re-read page 2. You said:
tontoz wrote:The Hawks problem wasn't the last play. The problem was that Denver had 17 offensive rebounds even though they shot 50%. Anderson had 7 offensive rebounds.

The Hawks defensive rebounding blows.

I responded with:
parson wrote:'toz, the stat sheet doesn't tell the real story, which is that DEN's gameplan was to run us off the court. We had to pace ourselves for the 1st 3 qtrs. Those offensive rebounds you're looking at weren't all by big men down low, but rather were HUSTLE rebounds. Even Chris Andersen didn't get his by being a traditional big man but, instead, outran our guys to the ball.

They were shooting lots from beyond the arc and the rebounds were coming way out away from the basket. They were able to hustle harder than we dared to, that's the story. In the 4th, when we finally took off the governors from our engine, we outrebounded them.


After that, you went ballistic.

Eat a cookie. Pet a puppy. Relax. Do whatever you need to but understand this, you claimed we lost the game with poor boxing out and I responded by saying I saw things differently, namely that they tried to take advantage of our having 2 starters out. I gave my opinion and that somehow offended you. Get over it.
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Re: Hawks at Nuggets 2/25/09 

Post#48 » by tontoz » Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:07 pm

DEN's gameplan was to run us off the court.


Nobody in their right mind would interpret that as having any relevance to rebounding. Rebounding is about positioning. Is a player running when they box out? No. is a player going to get tired running 5-10 feet for a rebound? No

The idea that Denvers game plan was to run us off the court by chasing long rebounds is a joke.

The Hawks defensive rebounding blows. This game was just another example of it. The Hawks got outrebounded 52-32 by the Jazz, 54-40 by Portland (without Oden), 74-47 by the lakers. The Hawks gave up 8 offensive rebounds IN ONE QUARTER TO THE FRIGGIN KNICKS.
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Re: Hawks at Nuggets 2/25/09 

Post#49 » by LL Cool Scott » Thu Feb 26, 2009 9:34 pm

You guys about finished?
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Re: Hawks at Nuggets 2/25/09 

Post#50 » by killbuckner » Thu Feb 26, 2009 10:12 pm

Parson is the new Black Knight.
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Re: Hawks at Nuggets 2/25/09 

Post#51 » by parson » Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:56 pm

That's a chess notation, right? As in I'm being attacked by 2 rooks?

I really don't know what else to do beyond telling him to calm down and actually read the posts.






Go and boil your bottoms, you sons of a silly person. I blow my nose at you.
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Re: Hawks at Nuggets 2/25/09 

Post#52 » by tontoz » Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:05 am

parson wrote:That's a chess notation, right? As in I'm being attacked by 2 rooks?

I really don't know what else to do beyond telling him to calm down and actually read the posts.






Go and boil your bottoms, you sons of a silly person. I blow my nose at you.


I did read your posts and they made no sense. the notion that Denver's game plan was to run the Hawks off the court by chasing down long rebounds is one of the nuttiest things i have ever seen on this site.

But that is not all.

Again, to be fair, I do think we pushed the ball in the 4th, but I think we tried to pace ourselves in the 1st 3 periods, when I think DEN tried to raise the energy level and tire us out.


This is so ridiculous in so many ways i am not sure where to start.

First of all the hawks had the day off before the game and a day off after the game. They had no reason to pace themselves for anything. In fact it looked to me like they went all out to win this game. Their effort last night was the best it has been in weeks. they pushed the ball up the floor on offfense and frequently pressured Denver in 3/4ths of the court on defense. They look like a team doing everything but trying to pace themselves.

And how exactly are they going to "tire us out" chasing down offensive rebounds when they are shooting lights out?

Billups went to the ft line 19 times. Do you think the Hawks got tired watching him shoot foul shots and walking the ball up the court in transition?

Boxing out is not the problem when the ball bounces 10-12 feet from the basket: hustle is.



Wrong again. If Melo takes a perimeter shot and Marvin doesn't box him out he can easily follow up his own shot. Every player who played in last nights game for Denver got an offensive rebound which is really sad considering they shot 50%. Andersen got 7 in 21 minutes.
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