Nash - Magic - Stockton

JohnVancouver · Post #1 » by **JohnVancouver** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 5:53 pm

Excerpt from a Charley Rosen column on FoxSports/MSN:

Q: Being a bit young, I never really got to see either Magic Johnson or John Stockton play. How would you rate Steve Nash in comparison to these two? — Joe, NYC

A: Quite favorably, actually.

In sheer power, Magic tops the trio, with Stockton second and Nash a distant third.

Nash was faster than Stockton, who was faster than Magic. This same order holds true for shooting.

Magic was by far the best finisher, trailed by Nash and then Stockton.

In ball-handling ability, it's Nash, Stockton and Magic. In passing, it's Magic, Nash and Stockton.

Nash gets the nod in creativity, with Magic next, and Stockton third.

Magic was the best-ever in triggering a fast break, while Nash is slightly better than Stockton.

For versatility, the Magic Man was unmatched, with Nash having a slight advantage here over Stockton.

None of the three were adequate defenders, but Stockton was better than Magic who was better than Nash.

Magic's size gives him the edge in overall court vision. Next comes Nash, and then Stockton.

Stockton, of course, was the master of the screen/roll. Nash is the runner-up in this category only because Magic was rarely involved in this maneuver.

It should also be noted that each of these superb point guards had the good fortune of playing in a system that suited them best. Magic in a controlled running game. Stockton in S/R sets. And Nash in a perpetual fast break.

Overall, I'd rate Magic to win, Nash to show, and Stockton to place.

--- Thought this would be of interest to the board, and that it might make Maryvale's head explode.
Wait for it ......

There, that sound like someone stepping on a piece of bubble-wrap in the next room

Post #2 » by **TASTIC** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 5:55 pm

Jeez...I don't think either are REMOTELY close to Magic...

Magic

Prime Nash

Stockton

Nash

Big Money · Post #3 » by **Big Money** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 6:34 pm

I agree, Magic is a top 5 all-time player, from the time he stepped on the court he was a winner, cant teach that. But pretty cool breakdown.

eastsidecrossover · Post #4 » by **eastsidecrossover** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:01 pm

Magic was great. He was a guy that could do everything out their. Yes, stockton and nash are better at other things, but magic is the best. He reminds me of pistol pete without the outside shot to a point. stockton was the best defender steals wise. but you also have to look at who these guys have played with. magic has had the msot tallented team around him, stockton has had the 2nd all time scoring leader by his side to dish to, nash has had dirk, amare and marion. A little different in talent wise when you compare who they played with.

As of now, I say magic, stockton, nash.

WTFsunsFTW · Post #5 » by **WTFsunsFTW** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 9:15 pm

Magic is my favorite player ever.

JohnVancouver · Post #6 » by **JohnVancouver** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:02 pm

[quote="TASTIC"]Jeez...I don't think either are REMOTELY close to Magic...

---Agree with you wholeheartedly; Magic was .... special, up there with Wilt, Michael, Russell. Just a singular player. Never been a guard like him or likely ever will be.

Plays centre as a rookie, in the Finals?

Geebus

Togo · Post #7 » by **Togo** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 1:51 am

I love Steve Nash....but you have to give the nod to Stockton. Stockton wasn't a great man defender, but was fantastic at playing the lanes (which is why he holds the records for steals). Nash isn't good at anything when it comes to defense, which is why every point guard in the league goes off on us. He was much like Nash, in that he could have scored 20-25 a game, but was more interested in getting his team involved. I would take a Gary Payton prime over a Nash prime.....

chrice · Post #8 » by **chrice** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 5:33 am

Magic was something special. He understood what he needed to do to win, and he did whatever it took to accomplish that goal. You can argue that he could have as big of an impact on the team as any of the greatest legends.

Did anyone see him when he returned from retirement? He had 19 pts 8 rebounds 10 assists in 25 minutes.

Anklebreaker702 · Post #9 » by **Anklebreaker702** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 5:59 am

WTFsunsFTW wrote:Magic is my favorite player ever.

I'm in agreement with you there. Myself personally I like Nash over Stockton. He used to not hardy shoot unless he was wide open or forced to take a shot at times while Nash will pass, create & stick a 3 in your face at a moments notice!

nonplayerzealot · Post #10 » by **nonplayerzealot** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:33 am

TASTIC wrote:Jeez...I don't think either are REMOTELY close to Magic...

Magic

He's also full of ass in re: to Magic rarely using the pick and roll.

Post #11 » by **tsherkin** » Sat Feb 28, 2009 4:45 am

Actually Magic didn't usually use the pick-and-roll. What did he do... he handled on the break, he ran post-repost with Kareem and Worthy, he fired up lobs, he created off of dribble penetration and in the post... He acted as a swing hub on the wing and at the top of the circle...

He ran the pick-and-roll, but it wasn't a staple play for him, it wasn't what he was doing most of the time as it is with Nash and was with Stockton. Very, very different styles.

In any case, there isn't a comparison here, Magic exceeds above and beyond both of the other guys. He made it abundantly clear when he was old, didn't have Kareem and threw out 12+ apg in a season where his team's pace was 94.1 (e.g. not even top 5 today) that he could do brilliant things.

He was, by far, the best scorer. He was as efficient from the field as Nash at his best and yet he drew a lot of fouls. At the end of his career, he could hit a 3 pretty well, and through the majority of his career, he was a dangerous post scorer and mid-range shooter. He gets undersold as a mid-range shooter a lot for some reason, probably because he was shaky for his first two or three seasons. But he was also an outstanding FT shooter as well, so there's that. Rebounding? Yeah, that'd be Magic. Help and man defense both better than Nash, and his man D was better than Stockton's. Magic was also a multi-positional defender. To be fair, defense was never his strength and he was honestly weak against certain types of players, but mind that he was often guarding wing guys, right?

Rosen's nuts if he thinks Stockton had a better handle than Magic. Nash, I'll give him, he's underrated BIG time there, but Stockton was never an impressive ball-handler in that way. Calculated and intelligent, controlled, surely, but never the same caliber of ball-handler as Magic or Nash.

At least he got it right in the end: Magic to win, Nash for show and Stockton to place.

85star · Post #12 » by **85star** » Sat Feb 28, 2009 1:03 pm

WTF? Seriously wtf?

This guy has no idea what he's talking about.
Sure I'm a Stockton fan and do think he's the greatest PG to play the game. I accept Magic is the better player but he's my 6th man, a true PG doesn't win finals MVP in his rookie year playing center.

Anyway back to this guys delusions.
Of the 3, Stockton is the worst passer?
None were adequate defenders?
Nash is the most creative?

If you put the all time assist leader (and single season leader) as 3rd on any passing list you have to lose all credibility. I agree with his final list of Magic, Stock then Nash however his arguments are baseless.

I would like to ask Tastic where Prime Stockton would fit on his list if regular Stock beats regular Nash. Nash is good but easily the most undeserving MVP ever. A product of the NBA trying to lose the so called "thug" image.

Never Fear 33 Is Here · Post #13 » by **Never Fear 33 Is Here** » Sat Feb 28, 2009 1:58 pm

^^^Haha. I get the feeling you aren't going to have too many friends around here with that last comment.

Post #14 » by **TASTIC** » Sat Feb 28, 2009 2:59 pm

85star wrote:WTF? Seriously wtf?

This guy has no idea what he's talking about.
Sure I'm a Stockton fan and do think he's the greatest PG to play the game. I accept Magic is the better player but he's my 6th man, a true PG doesn't win finals MVP in his rookie year playing center.

Anyway back to this guys delusions.
Of the 3, Stockton is the worst passer?
None were adequate defenders?
Nash is the most creative?

If you put the all time assist leader (and single season leader) as 3rd on any passing list you have to lose all credibility. I agree with his final list of Magic, Stock then Nash however his arguments are baseless.

I would like to ask Tastic where Prime Stockton would fit on his list if regular Stock beats regular Nash. Nash is good but easily the most undeserving MVP ever. A product of the NBA trying to lose the so called "thug" image.

I put Stockton's overall career over Nash simply due to efficiency over so many years - his peak wasn't as good as Nash's peak but you can' argue with the stats. Nash's ability to make his teammates all have career years when he was at his peak is my indication on how good he was.
A biased point of view possibly, but each to his own...
Prime Stockton was awesome, for sure. But didn't take over games on the offensive end like Nash could with his scoring AND passing

Post #15 » by **tsherkin** » Sat Feb 28, 2009 3:33 pm

85star wrote:Of the 3, Stockton is the worst passer?

He was. It's not a discredit to Stockton, it's a comment on the fact that Magic is involved in the discussion and that he didn't use a staple play to do everything, and that Nash is a vastly more creative passer who, while using the staple play, creates more effectively outside of that play. It doesn't mean Stockton isn't one of the best passers ever, it's reflective of the talent of the other two guys.

None were adequate defenders?

Yeah, that's bunk, Magic was acceptable and played good off-ball defense, Stockton was a great team defender and even Nash is a moderately effective team defender. He and Stockton just blow straight-up against quick guys and strong guys.

Frank Lee · Post #16 » by **Frank Lee** » Sat Feb 28, 2009 4:16 pm

I'll take DJ over Nash and Stockton (who, IMO, are are Pistol Pete knock offs..) every day of the week. May be not a 'pure PG' whatever that is, but he guided his team to 2 champ yrs running the show .... and shutting down Magic.

Post #17 » by **rsavaj** » Sat Feb 28, 2009 4:40 pm

Where does KJ rank? I have him ahead of Nash and Kidd on my list.

Post #18 » by **tsherkin** » Sun Mar 1, 2009 12:04 am

Frank Lee wrote:I'll take DJ over Nash and Stockton (who, IMO, are are Pistol Pete knock offs..) every day of the week.

What? That's the most ridiculous comparison ever. Stockton didn't look anything like Pistol Pete on the court... he didn't pull flashy dribble moves and he took good shots at high percentages, and wasn't a primary scorer. And he played good D. They couldn't be more dissimilar.

Nash remotely resembles Pistol Pete because he's got some flash but he's a way more effective passer, a well lower-volume shooter and a way BETTER shooter.

That's a terrible, TERRIBLE comparison.

Anklebreaker702 · Post #19 » by **Anklebreaker702** » Sun Mar 1, 2009 8:14 am

85star wrote:WTF? Seriously wtf?

This guy has no idea what he's talking about.
Sure I'm a Stockton fan and do think he's the greatest PG to play the game. I accept Magic is the better player but he's my 6th man, a true PG doesn't win finals MVP in his rookie year playing center.

This statement is way off the mark. Don't attack Magic's versatility to back your argument. He was forced to play center only in that 1 game & he didn't play center the entire game. He had 42 points 15 boards & 7 assists from playing all 5 positions, That is why he is considered a great player & not just a good 1. Plus he has more rings on 1 hand than those guys put together.

WTFsunsFTW · Post #20 » by **WTFsunsFTW** » Sun Mar 1, 2009 9:58 am

It was in no way a bash on Stockton, but Magic > Nash > Stockton is pretty much the only way to put it.