The Kobe Step Through

[Zeitgeister]

Like I said, it's not specific enough.

What you need to understand is the reason why this move is hardly ever used. Because if it were legal, it should always be used. But it's not. Read what shaggy said. Just think about it. He's absolutely right. You would gain ridiculous advantages from using this move. And not what Kobe did. He doesn't gain much by doing that. Double teams would become useless. Most players would become impossible to stop in the low post. But that is not the case. And it has nothing to do with this move feeling "unnatural"...

Good god dude, just because not everyone uses it, doesn't make it illegal. Lebron would gain a ridiculous advantage if he learned how to use a post up game, but he doesn't. It must be illegal for him to try it. Any center who mastered the hookshot would gain a ridiculous advantage because it would be nearly unguardable, but no one uses it.

Double teams would not be useless, because how the hell are you going to step through inbetween two guys that are right next to each other? That would probably end up being an offensive foul.

[avacc19]

The move is legit, get over it.

[sixerswillrule]

You're not getting it. And no, don't bring up the rules for the 937854th time. I know what it says. You're not thinking about it practical terms.

It's really not as big of a deal as you're making it out to be. I've done it, I've seen it done. What Kobe did is the move. It's not that huge of an advantage.

Yeah, you definitely didn't read what I said...So now you're restricting the move to only what Kobe did?

Good god dude, just because not everyone uses it, doesn't make it illegal. Lebron would gain a ridiculous advantage if he learned how to use a post up game, but he doesn't. It must be illegal for him to try it. Any center who mastered the hookshot would gain a ridiculous advantage because it would be nearly unguardable, but no one uses it.

Umm, the hookshot is used very often...
No one is stopping LeBron from posting up. That's called a skill-set. I'm talking about a move in the post that no one uses. Anyone in the post who has picked up his dribble and has a defender right on him would not have any problems. Because he could just jump away from him and take an uncontested shot. But this doesn't happen...

Double teams would not be useless, because how the hell are you going to step through inbetween two guys that are right next to each other?

Right, because two players can cover 360 degrees with just their bodies...

[casey]

And no, don't bring up the rules for the 937854th time.

[Zeitgeister]

I meant the skyhook, which isn't used anymore. The baby hook is used a lot, but the skyhook is hardly ever used anymore. It's not illegal, and its unguardable, but nobody does it.

Why would two players have to cover 360 degrees? They can cover 180 degrees, which would be enough to shutdown any step through.

The rules are going to be clearly defined, so that anytime something is called into question they can't fall back on "well its not written down, but its just common knowledge". That's not the way it works, the rules have to be clearly defined, and they are in this case. That move is not a travel, and its pointless for you to argue this point further.

[sixerswillrule]

I meant the skyhook, which isn't used anymore. The baby hook is used a lot, but the skyhook is hardly ever used anymore. It's not illegal, and its unguardable, but nobody does it.

The sky hook has evolved into the jump hook. Players choose to do it that way because it gives them more balance and allows them to release the ball quicker. Not to mention the fact that the sky hook is more difficult to pull off because of how you have to end your arm. And now you'll answer, "Well, players choose not to jump off their opposite foot." And you'd be wrong. There's a big difference. Players have no reason not to use that move. They can go from taking a contested shot to an uncontested shot. But they don't...

Why would two players have to cover 360 degrees? They can cover 180 degrees, which would be enough to shutdown any step through.

Umm, so then they can just pivot and jump away...

[casey]

Yeah, you definitely didn't read what I said...So now you're restricting the move to only what Kobe did?

I'm not restricting it to anything. The move is having one foot as your pivot foot. Moving the other foot around. Then picking up your pivot foot, and jumping off of that other foot that you were moving around. The pivot foot can never touch the ground again. You can't jump back a few feet and take a regular jump shot. You came step back a few feet with your other foot and jump off of that foot, turnaround in midair, and shoot an off-balance jump shot. A one footed fadeaway jump shot isn't exactly a high percentage shot though.

[marcroboy]

Like I said, it's not specific enough.

What you need to understand is the reason why this move is hardly ever used. Because if it were legal, it should always be used. But it's not. Read what shaggy said. Just think about it. He's absolutely right. You would gain ridiculous advantages from using this move. And not what Kobe did. He doesn't gain much by doing that. Double teams would become useless. Most players would become impossible to stop in the low post. But that is not the case. And it has nothing to do with this move feeling "unnatural"...

It is legal. There isn't a rule in the rule book that say it's illegal. You know that's kinda the point of the rule... just like how the refs allowed 6 blazer players to score that basket against the celtics, they can't waive it off because you know....it's not in the rules. And guess what, now that NBA has added a rule just for that incident. I guess sometimes common sense isn't as useful as you thought eh

Ridiculous advantage? Jumping also gives you a ridiculous advantage when you shoot, what's your point? If the rules allow it, then you are gonna have to live with it.

[marcroboy]

Can't believe no one posted this video in 9 pages..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzrGyi6g ... re=related


He jumped with the non-pivot foot while the pivot foot was off the ground. Not saying it's the definitive proof that this move is legal but obviously Kobe knows the rule better than the Sixersrule guy.

Kobe travels on that video, just not in the move in question. When he starts the to drive he first jabs with his right and then uses it as his pivot foot. That move used to be one my biggest beefs with the NBA, luckily they cracked down on that. Now you see it used more in Europe which is a total disgrace if you ask me.

I don't know why you still argue about this, but in short:
If you jump off of two feet (or semi-two feet in some cases) - it's not a travel anywhere.
If you clearly take a step and jump with one foot - It looks like a travel to most, me included, but reading the rulebook word for word it's not. It's called a travel almost always under FIBA, and I've seen it called and not called in the NBA. Can't say about College.

Somebody needs to read the thread. I'm not even gonna reply to this. It's a travel in the NBA because the player who get "called" landed their pivot foot before they dribbled. Think about it.

[sixerswillrule]

Yeah, you definitely didn't read what I said...So now you're restricting the move to only what Kobe did?

I'm not restricting it to anything. The move is having one foot as your pivot foot. Moving the other foot around. Then picking up your pivot foot, and jumping off of that other foot that you were moving around. The pivot foot can never touch the ground again. You can't jump back a few feet and take a regular jump shot. You came step back a few feet with your other foot and jump off of that foot, turnaround in midair, and shoot an off-balance jump shot. A one footed fadeaway jump shot isn't exactly a high percentage shot though.

You said:

What Kobe did is the move.

After I had already said:

And not what Kobe did. He doesn't gain much by doing that.

I was talking about in the post. Anyone with a clue on offense would become unstoppable. There would no longer be a reason to take difficult, contested shots that may get blocked. You could be pivoting on one side of the basket with nowhere to go and end up on the other side of the basket with an easy layup. I have yet to see this happen. And again, it's for a reason...

[casey]

What Kobe did is the move. You could do it in other situations I guess. But the footwork would be pretty much the same.

You could be pivoting on on side of the basket with nowhere to go and end up on the other side of the basket with an easy layup.

How? Let's say your right foot is your pivot foot. So you're moving your left foot around. You can take a huge step with your left foot, pick up your right, and jump off of your left foot with the right foot never coming back down to the ground again. I don't see how this is some crazy unstoppable game changing move.

[CharlieMurphy]

Bottom Line:

The Kobe step through is a legal move. Lifting your pivot foot and jumping off the other foot is not illegal as long as you don't have the ball when you land.

[mrfatwrecker]

sixerswillrule and shaggyz, YOU are the know-it-all 12 year old internet dorks who can't accept the truth. What the hell is wrong with you? The only reason this has reached 10 damn pages is because you refuse to accept the truth and you both look like legendary idiots. I'm starting to think that maybe you're just trolling for attention because you have been proven wrong a million times in this one thread.

If the player raises his pivot off the floor, he must pass or attempt a field goal before the foot is returned to the floor.

If the player raises his pivot off the floor, he must pass or attempt a field goal before the foot is returned to the floor.

If the player raises his pivot off the floor, he must pass or attempt a field goal before the foot is returned to the floor.

If the player raises his pivot off the floor, he must pass or attempt a field goal before the foot is returned to the floor.

If the player raises his pivot off the floor, he must pass or attempt a field goal before the foot is returned to the floor.

If the player raises his pivot off the floor, he must pass or attempt a field goal before the foot is returned to the floor.

If the player raises his pivot off the floor, he must pass or attempt a field goal before the foot is returned to the floor.

What the hell is wrong with you? Seriously. It's clear as day in the rules and you haven't posted a SINGLE rule to back you up. You're so wrong and it hurts that there are people this stupid and dense in the world.

[marcroboy]

lol sixerswillrule thinks he's better than the rule.

[sixerswillrule]

You could be pivoting on on side of the basket with nowhere to go and end up on the other side of the basket with an easy layup.

How? Let's say your right foot is your pivot foot. So you're moving your left foot around. You can take a huge step with your left foot, pick up your right, and jump off of your left foot with the right foot never coming back down to the ground again. I don't see how this is some crazy unstoppable game changing move.

Exactly. But that is a game changing move. Like I said, you could be face to face with a defender on one side of the basket with no shot to take. With the ability to jump off of your non-pivot foot, you could get all the way to the other side of the basket, giving the defender no chance of contesting the shot. THIS NEVER HAPPENS. It's too easy. Players couldn't be stopped down low if this were the case. When I start seeing players use this move is when I'll believe that it's a legal move.

And oh yeah, I remembered this scenario. You know how sometimes after a player grabs a rebound, he might collide with someone or have something happen that causes him to lose balance? And then as he loses his balance he almost picks up his pivot foot, but he tries really hard to keep it nailed to the ground? Well, why do you think that is? It's because as soon as his pivot foot leaves the ground, it's a travel...

[jaymeister15]

sixersrule, you still haven't responded to the video marcroboy posted.

So, you're saying that would be called a travel on kobe?

[mrfatwrecker]

Everyone just stop, it is obvious that sixerswillrule is mentally challenged and our arguments are completely useless against his increasingly (Please Use More Appropriate Word) stubborn nature.

Why is it up to us to convince him anyways? Let him think what he wants, he's a damn fool.

[sixerswillrule]

I've already discussed that move, it's just like the replay posted earlier against the Knicks.

A) He doesn't gain much of an advantage by using that move.

B) Yes, it is a travel.

C) No, it most likely won't be called for travel for two reasons: It's not THAT obvious. It happens quickly and it's hard to tell without looking at it in slow motion. And also, because he's Kobe...

However, I would be willing to bet that at some point in Kobe's career, he was called for that move...

[mrfatwrecker]

However, I would be willing to bet that at some point in Kobe's career, he was called for that move...

Surprise, you assume again and post nothing to back it up.

By the way, Paul Pierce JUST did the step through on national television. No call. Now stop speaking, you're killing all the LOLcats.

[jaymeister15]

whatever, I give up, you've been shown videos that prove you're wrong, you've been shown the rule that proves you're wrong...and then all you come back was is "well I haven't seen it done, so it can't be legal (despite the fact everyone else here has seen it done during games"

Try calling that a travel whenever it happens in pick up games, see how people respond.