The Kobe Step Through

mrfatwrecker · Post #181 » by **mrfatwrecker** » Sun Mar 1, 2009 11:43 pm

sixerswillrule wrote:I've basically admitted that since the beginning. Why else would I choose to ignore it. If that was your only concern, you should have stopped posting on the 5th page...

But according to the refs, it's not legal. And don't bring up Kobe. I've stated what would be called a travel...

No you did not admit you were wrong from the beginning. You've been arguing against us the whole time, knowing you're wrong and are just trying to dodge any blame, because you are never wrong.

sixerswillrule · Post #182 » by **sixerswillrule** » Sun Mar 1, 2009 11:51 pm

A) I didn't admit I was wrong then, I'm not now. My only point was that it would not be allowed in the NBA. And I stand by that.

B) Who the **** was talking to you? Didn't you say you were done like 5 pages ago? Go crawl back into the hole you came out of...

mrfatwrecker · Post #183 » by **mrfatwrecker** » Sun Mar 1, 2009 11:53 pm

I'm still enjoying your self-destruction.

marcroboy · Post #184 » by **marcroboy** » Sun Mar 1, 2009 11:55 pm

sixerswillrule wrote:A) I didn't admit I was wrong then, I'm not now. My only point was that it would not be allowed in the NBA. And I stand by that.

B) Who the **** was talking to you? Didn't you say you were done like 5 pages ago? Go crawl back into the hole you came out of...

Well too bad... no ref would do something that's not written in the rule book. Kobe will do that move for as long as he wishes. You are wrong and everyone in this thread except you knows it :lol:

casey · Post #185 » by **casey** » Sun Mar 1, 2009 11:56 pm

sixerswillrule wrote:I've basically admitted that since the beginning. Why else would I choose to ignore it. If that was your only concern, you should have stopped posting on the 5th page...

But according to the refs, it's not legal. And don't bring up Kobe. I've stated what would be called a travel...

No you haven't. And how do you figure that the refs would call it when you say that nobody ever attempts it?

So do I have this right now: The move is legal. The move should be legal. Nobody ever attempts the move. The refs would call it a travel if anybody did attempt the move.

marcroboy · Post #186 » by **marcroboy** » Mon Mar 2, 2009 12:00 am

Undrafted Rook wrote:
I got lost in the translation here, thanks for correcting me. I ment both feet down at the count of one, I think it's called a jump stop. We agree now?

"A player who comes to a stop on the count of one when both feet are on the floor or
touch the floor simultaneously, may pivot using either foot as his pivot. If he alights with
both feet he must release the ball before either foot touches the floor."

There's some good things in this thread, it's just get lost under the arguing...

Yea I agree with you on the first move.He did travel there by lifting his pivot foot with a ball still in his hand(not shooting or passing)

.

sixerswillrule · Post #187 » by **sixerswillrule** » Mon Mar 2, 2009 12:08 am

And how do you figure that the refs would call it when you say that nobody ever attempts it?

They don't attempt it because they know they'll get called for it. The refs will call it if for some reason they do attempt it. Pretty simple...

So do I have this right now: The move technically is legal. The move should be made illegal. Nobody ever attempts the move. The refs would call it a travel if anybody did attempt the move.

You got it.

casey · Post #188 » by **casey** » Mon Mar 2, 2009 12:17 am

sixerswillrule wrote:Not because I think it shouldn't be allowed(I don't)

An hour ago you said the move should be legal. But now you're saying it should be made illegal? Explain please.

casey · Post #189 » by **casey** » Mon Mar 2, 2009 12:20 am

sixerswillrule wrote:They don't attempt it because they know they'll get called for it. The refs will call it if for some reason they do attempt it. Pretty simple...

How do they know they'll get called for it when the refs never call it (as it's never attempted) and it's not even against the rules?

sixerswillrule · Post #190 » by **sixerswillrule** » Mon Mar 2, 2009 12:20 am

I meant that I don't think it should be allowed. I see how the way I put it could be confusing. But my feelings on that should be obvious. Why else would I argue about the ridiculous advantages you gain from that move...

sixerswillrule · Post #191 » by **sixerswillrule** » Mon Mar 2, 2009 12:21 am

casey wrote:
sixerswillrule wrote:They don't attempt it because they know they'll get called for it. The refs will call it if for some reason they do attempt it. Pretty simple...

How do they know they'll get called for it when the refs never call it (as it's never attempted) and it's not even against the rules?

I've seen it called before.

raptorforlife88 · Post #192 » by **raptorforlife88** » Mon Mar 2, 2009 12:25 am

sixerswillrule wrote:I meant that I don't think it should be allowed. I see how the way I put it could be confusing. But my feelings on that should be obvious. Why else would I argue about the ridiculous advantages you gain from that move...

Clearly you've never tried to pull of this move. Unless you have incredible balance you're quite likely to wind up missing the shot wildly because the spin throws you off quite a bit. It's only an advantage if you're skilled enough in which case why not use the move. Just because Shaq can't be stopped two feet from the rim doesn't mean he should be banned from there.

sixerswillrule · Post #193 » by **sixerswillrule** » Mon Mar 2, 2009 12:31 am

I discussed that earlier. As long as the foot you end up jumping off of is the foot that you normally jump off of, then there really isn't anything unusual or difficult about it. It's bad enough having a guy like Shaq be unstoppable down low, with nothing able to be done about it. If this were allowed, we'd have a league full of Shaqs...

casey · Post #194 » by **casey** » Mon Mar 2, 2009 12:32 am

sixerswillrule wrote:
casey wrote:
sixerswillrule wrote:They don't attempt it because they know they'll get called for it. The refs will call it if for some reason they do attempt it. Pretty simple...

How do they know they'll get called for it when the refs never call it (as it's never attempted) and it's not even against the rules?

I've seen it called before.

No you haven't.

sixerswillrule · Post #195 » by **sixerswillrule** » Mon Mar 2, 2009 12:34 am

casey wrote:
sixerswillrule wrote:I've seen it called before.

No you haven't.

If you say so.

marcroboy · Post #196 » by **marcroboy** » Mon Mar 2, 2009 1:41 am

sixerswillrule wrote:
casey wrote:
sixerswillrule wrote:I've seen it called before.

No you haven't.

If you say so.

If the play is legal the ref will never call it unless it was a mistake. If that's the case, I don't see why it is even worth mentioning here.

shaggyZ · Post #197 » by **shaggyZ** » Mon Mar 2, 2009 12:28 pm

Okay I'm sorry but I can't let this die. You guys are so wrong. The reason it isn't explained clearly in the rulebook is because it's so elementary that it doesn't even need mentioned. It is a blatant freaking change of pivot feet. If it was legal, you would see the move 50 times a game in the post because it would be so freaking effective. It would be impossible to see it coming and they could cover so much ground by posting up, pivoting, change your pivot once, and get a layup. That's what the move in question is. Post up, pivot, change pivot, wide open shot. That's what we are talking about here. IT WOULD BE USED CONSTANTLY IF LEGAL. Okay, I'm done now, obviously no one is convincing anyone anything but I KNOW I'm right so PEACE OUT!!!

EDIT...just thought of one more thing. Say that 2 defenders are double teaming a dude. Harassing him big time, make him give up his dribble. So he's pivoting around trying to find some one. Say his left foot is his pivot foot. He pivots around looking for a pass. "Oh I'm trapped, I better call a time out.....wait no, I'll just stretch out my right leg, then step through, lift my pivot foot and escape the double team my switching pivot feet and throwing a pass off my right foot." They could just step out of the double team easily and make a pass. Do you know how ridiculously obvious this call would be for any referee to make? Any schmo knows this is a travel. Quit playin. Tell me that this would be legal. I want you to. I'll laugh in your face then delete my account. I will never post again.

mrfatwrecker · Post #198 » by **mrfatwrecker** » Mon Mar 2, 2009 2:38 pm

shaggyZ wrote:Okay I'm sorry but I can't let this die. You guys are so wrong. The reason it isn't explained clearly in the rulebook is because it's so elementary that it doesn't even need mentioned. It is a blatant freaking change of pivot feet. If it was legal, you would see the move 50 times a game in the post because it would be so freaking effective. It would be impossible to see it coming and they could cover so much ground by posting up, pivoting, change your pivot once, and get a layup. That's what the move in question is. Post up, pivot, change pivot, wide open shot. That's what we are talking about here. IT WOULD BE USED CONSTANTLY IF LEGAL. Okay, I'm done now, obviously no one is convincing anyone anything but I KNOW I'm right so PEACE OUT!!!

EDIT...just thought of one more thing. Say that 2 defenders are double teaming a dude. Harassing him big time, make him give up his dribble. So he's pivoting around trying to find some one. Say his left foot is his pivot foot. He pivots around looking for a pass. "Oh I'm trapped, I better call a time out.....wait no, I'll just stretch out my right leg, then step through, lift my pivot foot and escape the double team my switching pivot feet and throwing a pass off my right foot." They could just step out of the double team easily and make a pass. Do you know how ridiculously obvious this call would be for any referee to make? Any schmo knows this is a travel. Quit playin. Tell me that this would be legal. I want you to. I'll laugh in your face then delete my account. I will never post again.

Read the rules.

Laugh.

Get laughed at.

You're worse than sixerswillrule.

Kobay · Post #199 » by **Kobay** » Mon Mar 2, 2009 2:55 pm

Why not call the league office or send them an email and ask if that move is legal. Probably the quickest solution instead of 13+ pages of redundant arguments.

ponder276 · Post #200 » by **ponder276** » Mon Mar 2, 2009 4:02 pm

I'm not willing to read through 14 pages to see if we're now talking about a new move, but if we're still talking about the move where Kobe pivots around on one foot, then takes a big step with his non-pivot foot, and takes of on 2 feet, this is 100% legal! IT IS PROBABLY THE MOST COMMON POST MOVE IN BASKETBALL, IF YOU HAVE EVER PLAYED ANYTHING RESEMBLING ORGANIZED BASKETBALL, YOU WOULD HAVE BEEN TAUGHT THIS MOVE AGES AGO! It's generally referred to as an "up and under," but I guess "step through" works too. Some examples:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29Tq9_Ki ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLKWSYtA7do
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EtvIyXPrUs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlSZC4TAYVc (McHale does it a bunch of times in this video)

In these examples guys are using it close to the basket for lay ins, as opposed to further from the basket for jumpers, as Kobe often does, but the footwork is the same. It's not often used far from the basket, as it results in a jumper that is very tough to make (generally leaning, and jumping somewhat awkwardly off 2 feet), but Kobe is very good at making tough jumpers. If you think this move is a travel, you literally know nothing about basketball.