will this team be better off defensively without Amare?

hitachi7 · Post #1 » by **hitachi7** » Sun Mar 1, 2009 11:43 pm

For the first time this year this team showed some semblance of rotations and did a decent job protecting the paint. Kobe and Pau had very good games but everyone else was kept in check.

Anyway, I'm not going crazy over one game, but Lou is a good defender, and they have some solid defending big bodied wing players who can play the 4. So are the Suns better defensively without Amare? Clearly they are still damn good offensively.

Post #2 » by **rsavaj** » Sun Mar 1, 2009 11:51 pm

It's not a "will they be", it's a "they are". Any time you take one a poor defender out of the lineup, you'll improve.

Go7enKs · Post #3 » by **Go7enKs** » Sun Mar 1, 2009 11:59 pm

And you know what? I think the Suns play also with more heart without him.

It's sad cause Amare has immense talent, but this teams is better off without him. The season we played without him and this few games are proving it.

hitachi7 · Post #4 » by **hitachi7** » Mon Mar 2, 2009 12:15 am

Go7enKs wrote:And you know what? I think the Suns play also with more heart without him.

It's sad cause Amare has immense talent, but this teams is better off without him. The season we played without him and this few games are proving it.

I wouldn't go that far yet, I still think depth will be an issue. But I don't think it's a stretch to say this team can be almost as good offensively without Amare (the team is still loaded offensively) and be a good amount better defensively.

Mr. Sun · Post #5 » by **Mr. Sun** » Mon Mar 2, 2009 12:19 am

Shaq, like Amare doesn't like to man up to Pau... so I don't know!

BurningHeart · Post #6 » by **BurningHeart** » Mon Mar 2, 2009 12:21 am

Go7enKs wrote:And you know what? I think the Suns play also with more heart without him.

It's sad cause Amare has immense talent, but this teams is better off without him. The season we played without him and this few games are proving it.

Calm down there.

Post #7 » by **tsherkin** » Mon Mar 2, 2009 12:38 am

Yeah, Shaq letting Gasol take 14-footers with impunity was annoying, but you know he didn't want to play up on him because then Gasol would drive and shoot a higher percentage while drawing fouls.

JohnVancouver · Post #8 » by **JohnVancouver** » Mon Mar 2, 2009 2:23 am

hitachi7 wrote:
Go7enKs wrote:And you know what? I think the Suns play also with more heart without him.

It's sad cause Amare has immense talent, but this teams is better off without him. The season we played without him and this few games are proving it.

I wouldn't go that far yet, I still think depth will be an issue. But I don't think it's a stretch to say this team can be almost as good offensively without Amare (the team is still loaded offensively) and be a good amount better defensively.

--- If we had added a Horford or a Speights/JMagee/Randolph/Hickson in the past few years we would be in nice shape. Amare is a monster but as has been pointed out, he scores 30 his opposite number scores a career-high 25 so his effectiveness is nowhere near what the boxscore would indicate. He's a great,. great offensive player but that's all he's ever going to be, I'm afraid. He's had too many years and too much acclaim playing half a game for him to change now.
If we can deal him this summer for a couple of hard-working, athletic bigs and picks, I'd do it.

chrice · Post #9 » by **chrice** » Mon Mar 2, 2009 7:14 am

^Ding ding ding. Not to mention the number of offensive boards he allows and the points the opposing team scores off the multiple chance possessions..

dantian · Post #10 » by **dantian** » Mon Mar 2, 2009 12:31 pm

Dude, it has nothing to do with Amare not playing, but everything to do with NASH not playing! Amare is adequate at man defense, Nash is NOT, which requires rotation to cover his ass that Amare is not good at! Amare is not where the defense STARTS to break down.

Post #11 » by **rsavaj** » Mon Mar 2, 2009 6:29 pm

dantian wrote:Dude, it has nothing to do with Amare not playing, but everything to do with NASH not playing! Amare is adequate at man defense, Nash is NOT, which requires rotation to cover his ass that Amare is not good at! Amare is not where the defense STARTS to break down.

b-ball forever · Post #12 » by **b-ball forever** » Mon Mar 2, 2009 6:33 pm

If Barnes starts @ PF the Defense will be the same or better (depending on the matchup). If Hill starts @ PF the D will be worse.

hitachi7 · Post #13 » by **hitachi7** » Mon Mar 2, 2009 7:13 pm

dantian wrote:Dude, it has nothing to do with Amare not playing, but everything to do with NASH not playing! Amare is adequate at man defense, Nash is NOT, which requires rotation to cover his ass that Amare is not good at! Amare is not where the defense STARTS to break down.

Generally speaking PG defense doesn't matter that much. 1on1 PG defense is by far the least important. There aren't too many teams where Nash's D is literally the reason we can't defend. Against the Lakers Nash on Fisher is not a problem. Against the Spurs putting Nash on Bowen or even Finley has been fine. Pre-Billups trade Detroit was a big problem cause Nash can't guard Billups or Hamilton at all. Amare getting worked in the post has been a bigger problem in that past, although I'd agree that teams having success against the Suns start with attacking Amare or Nash.

Anyway it's probably pointless to say much more before the road trip. I almost view this Lakers game as the one game against the Spurs last year that got the Suns to play much better post-trade. We'll see what happens.

technoviking · Post #14 » by **technoviking** » Tue Mar 3, 2009 4:37 pm

Here's a look back at the 2005-2006 team, which had Nash and was actually a pretty damn good defensive team before Kurt Thomas got hurt.
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/ ... id=2360795
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime ... ime-060331

Frank Lee · Post #15 » by **Frank Lee** » Tue Mar 3, 2009 10:39 pm

dantian wrote:Dude, it has nothing to do with Amare not playing, but everything to do with NASH not playing! Amare is adequate at man defense, Nash is NOT, which requires rotation to cover his ass that Amare is not good at! Amare is not where the defense STARTS to break down.

Had the same thoughts watching LA game, DTain...It is an interesting argument...but about as popular as questioning the existance of God himself.

I don't buy into the PG defense not mattering though...hitachi too close to the hibachi

Nash get used more than not , no matter who we play. Bless his effort, but he can't make up for his physical limitations on D like he can on O. The guys best defense is taking a charge. Amare, on the other hand, has the physical tools, but apparently not the mental ability...

realsunsfan · Post #16 » by **realsunsfan** » Tue Mar 3, 2009 10:48 pm

Frank Lee wrote:
dantian wrote:Dude, it has nothing to do with Amare not playing, but everything to do with NASH not playing! Amare is adequate at man defense, Nash is NOT, which requires rotation to cover his ass that Amare is not good at! Amare is not where the defense STARTS to break down.

Had the same thoughts watching LA game, DTain...It is an interesting argument...but about as popular as questioning the existance of God himself.

I don't buy into the PG defense not mattering though...hitachi too close to the hibachi

Nash get used more than not , no matter who we play. Bless his effort, but he can't make up for his physical limitations on D like he can on O. The guys best defense is taking a charge. Amare, on the other hand, has the physical tools, but apparently not the mental ability...

Actually it remains to be seen if Amare has the mental ability, he has never really had to play defense, his career until now has been in D'antoni's system, it will be interesting to see if he improves his defense......