The Kobe Step Through

mrfatwrecker · Post #221 » by **mrfatwrecker** » Mon Mar 2, 2009 8:59 pm

What? I can't understand your babbling.

marcroboy · Post #222 » by **marcroboy** » Mon Mar 2, 2009 9:01 pm

sixerswillrule wrote:Do you have to be an ass in every single post that you make? Disagreeing is one thing, acting like a douchebag isn't necessary...

And no, college students aren't toddlers...

It's not just me. It's not the those were playing the game with me. It's not just the people on this board. I'm sure there are hundreds of people on this board, thousands of people everywhere who believe that is travel. That's how they play. That's how they see it played in the NBA. I'm not the one who just decided to call it a travel. It's known...

You have no evidence, the burden of proof should fall on those that make the accusation. Using your friends and thousands of fictitious people is not considered as evidence. It's kinda sad that I'm even responding to this. There's actually nothing more to be said since the rule should provide all that's needed in this discussion. Your endless ranting is actually detrimental to this thread, it's burying all the sensible discussion about the rule itself which imo it's fairly straightforward.
You claim that you go to college yet you argue like a 12 year old. I know most people don't learn **** in their post-secondary eduction but at least pick up some basic critical reasoning skills. And try not to repeat the same idiotic statements over and over in your argument.

sixerswillrule · Post #223 » by **sixerswillrule** » Mon Mar 2, 2009 9:06 pm

Depending on whether your pivot foot dragged or not, the move sounds legal. It's basically the same as an up and under but your back is facing the basket. So you're turning outside to step rather than inside.

It shouldn't work because if you have any kind of defence on you the help will prevent you from stepping across the lane and there is a three in the key rule.

If it's done quickly enough after getting the ball, it should work. And now that you mention help defense, shaggy explained it well...

Say that 2 defenders are double teaming a dude. Harassing him big time, make him give up his dribble. So he's pivoting around trying to find some one. Say his left foot is his pivot foot. He pivots around looking for a pass. "Oh I'm trapped, I better call a time out.....wait no, I'll just stretch out my right leg, then step through, lift my pivot foot and escape the double team my switching pivot feet and throwing a pass off my right foot."

This would be an easy way to cancel out the effect of any double team. This is never done, though...

doozyj · Post #224 » by **doozyj** » Mon Mar 2, 2009 9:10 pm

This thread is a total FAIL. OP FAILS at RealGM.

ponder276 · Post #225 » by **ponder276** » Mon Mar 2, 2009 9:13 pm

A CHALLENGE FOR THE "RULE BOOK" PEOPLE

If someone could produce a few clips where players establish one foot as the pivot foot, then lift said pivot foot while the non-pivot foot is still on the ground, without any dribbling, and then OBVIOUSLY jump off the non-pivot foot to shoot, and it's not called a travel, I'd be impressed. Everything I have learned and seen in basketball tells me that this is a travel. If it wasn't a travel, it'd be a fantastic post move that would be used all the time, but I literally never see this used. When players do the up and under they always jump off both feet, not just the non-pivot foot, despite the fact that it's way more awkward to jump off of both feet than to jump off just your non-pivot foot.

sixerswillrule · Post #226 » by **sixerswillrule** » Mon Mar 2, 2009 9:15 pm

And try not to repeat the same idiotic statements over and over in your argument.

3fdsjhdhsd(^^(^(*(*^)( RULES hkhjdsfhdfhj(&)_8-090988- RULES khhlhlhl809-0-0-0 RULES dskjdfhl**)(*__*^%^^% RULES..........................

How about this: WATCH A GAME. At the worst what you'll see is what Kobe did, where his non-pivot foot is only on the ground for a split second. There are FAR worse ways of doing it, where huge advantages could be gained, yet you NEVER see it done. If you are obviously lifting up your pivot foot and jumping off of your non-pivot, clear enough to bee seen without needing a replay, that's a travel.

As ponder said...

Do you even watch or play basketball? That's not allowed, it's traveling, end of story.

Apparently, you don't...

sixerswillrule · Post #227 » by **sixerswillrule** » Mon Mar 2, 2009 9:18 pm

When players do the up and under they always jump off both feet, not just the non-pivot foot, despite the fact that it's way more awkward to jump off of both feet than to jump off just your non-pivot foot.

Let me answer this before anyone else does...They might actually pick up their pivot foot and jump off their other foot, but it's only a split second. It's extremely hard to tell during the game, so the referees can't be expected to make that call. Anything more obvious is what I was talking about. That will get called...

syntax · Post #228 » by **syntax** » Mon Mar 2, 2009 9:21 pm

I read a few pages of this thread and felt compelled to say...

sixerswillrule, you are wrong

that is all

sixerswillrule · Post #229 » by **sixerswillrule** » Mon Mar 2, 2009 9:26 pm

syntax wrote:I read a few pages of this thread and felt compelled to say...

sixerswillrule, you are wrong

that is all

I don't know how I'm going to sleep tonight now...

prophet_of_rage · Post #230 » by **prophet_of_rage** » Mon Mar 2, 2009 9:27 pm

Sixer, you will always see players who are doubvle-teamed try to step around the double team. But double teams move to so you don't want to commit to lifting the pivot foot because then you're stuck, but let's say the double team doesn't move, you don't think you could step around them?

This is the basis of any step back move.

And your earlier post move is not a travel assuming the right foot is the pivot foot. If you pivot on the left foot and then the right foot that's a problem.

Watch FIBA where you'll see tons of step through moves. Watch Brandon Roy and you'll see it, too.

marcroboy · Post #231 » by **marcroboy** » Mon Mar 2, 2009 9:32 pm

sixerswillrule wrote:
And try not to repeat the same idiotic statements over and over in your argument.

3fdsjhdhsd(^^(^(*(*^)( RULES hkhjdsfhdfhj(&)_8-090988- RULES khhlhlhl809-0-0-0 RULES dskjdfhl**)(*__*^%^^% RULES..........................

How about this: WATCH A GAME. At the worst what you'll see is what Kobe did, where his non-pivot foot is only on the ground for a split second. There are FAR worse ways of doing it, where huge advantages could be gained, yet you NEVER see it done. If you are obviously lifting up your pivot foot and jumping off of your non-pivot, clear enough to bee seen without needing a replay, that's a travel.

As ponder said...

Do you even watch or play basketball? That's not allowed, it's traveling, end of story.

Apparently, you don't...

You never denied it's wrong. If you deny it then this discussion is over you can go and complain to the league because no ref will call anything against the rule. That's a perfectly logical statement, I felt the need to repeat it because it might take a few repetitions to get into your dense head.

marcroboy · Post #232 » by **marcroboy** » Mon Mar 2, 2009 9:33 pm

sixerswillrule wrote:
When players do the up and under they always jump off both feet, not just the non-pivot foot, despite the fact that it's way more awkward to jump off of both feet than to jump off just your non-pivot foot.

Let me answer this before anyone else does...They might actually pick up their pivot foot and jump off their other foot, but it's only a split second. It's extremely hard to tell during the game, so the referees can't be expected to make that call. Anything more obvious is what I was talking about. That will get called...

Actually, even if the ref sees it he still won't call it. Why don't you produce a video clip of that move being done and a travel was called?

sixerswillrule · Post #233 » by **sixerswillrule** » Mon Mar 2, 2009 9:35 pm

But me commenting on the rules wouldn't have changed anything. What's written there is what's written there, regardless of what I say. So there was no reason for you to keep bringing it up...

sixerswillrule · Post #234 » by **sixerswillrule** » Mon Mar 2, 2009 9:36 pm

Why don't you produce a video clip of that move being done.

marcroboy · Post #235 » by **marcroboy** » Mon Mar 2, 2009 9:40 pm

sixerswillrule wrote:Why don't you produce a video clip of that move being done.

Because I'm not the one accusing it a travel :roll:

I have all the evidence I need while you have none. If you can't see this by now I have no hope for you.

marcroboy · Post #236 » by **marcroboy** » Mon Mar 2, 2009 9:41 pm

sixerswillrule wrote:But me commenting on the rules wouldn't have changed anything. What's written there is what's written there, regardless of what I say. So there was no reason for you to keep bringing it up...

Well maybe you should say "wow I guess it's not a travel ". :lol:

mrfatwrecker · Post #237 » by **mrfatwrecker** » Mon Mar 2, 2009 9:49 pm

sixerswillrule CANT be wrong, don't you get it? He's in college and us graduates couldn't possibly bestow any new information on him. He is INFALLIBLE.

marcroboy · Post #238 » by **marcroboy** » Mon Mar 2, 2009 9:53 pm

mrfatwrecker wrote:sixerswillrule CANT be wrong, don't you get it? He's in college and us graduates couldn't possibly bestow any new information on him. He is INFALLIBLE.

Yea we better watch out, he has "hundreds if not thousands" of people backing him up :lol:

sixerswillrule · Post #239 » by **sixerswillrule** » Mon Mar 2, 2009 9:57 pm

mrfatwrecker wrote:sixerswillrule CANT be wrong, don't you get it? He's in college and us graduates couldn't possibly bestow any new information on him. He is INFALLIBLE.

Wow, are you really still talking?

And no, don't say that I've been doing the same thing. I only kept talking when someone said something to me. And I was done until shaggy opened it up again and others backed us up as well. But no one was talking to you...

snowlauncher · Post #240 » by **snowlauncher** » Mon Mar 2, 2009 10:41 pm

NBA rules are ambiguous in their wording but NCAA rules is clear that you can
lift your pivot foot while the other foot is on the ground:

http://www.ncaa.org/library/rules/2006/ ... _rules.pdf

Art. 2. A player who catches the ball with both feet on the playing court
may pivot, using either foot. When one foot is lifted, the other is the pivot
foot.
Art. 3. A player who catches the ball while moving or dribbling may stop
and establish a pivot foot as follows:
a. When both feet are off the playing court and the player lands:
1. Simultaneously on both feet, either may be the pivot foot;
2. On one foot followed by the other, the first foot to touch shall be
the pivot foot;
3. On one foot, the player may jump off that foot and simultane-
ously land on both; neither foot can be the pivot foot.
b. When one foot is on the playing court:
1. That foot shall be the pivot foot when the other foot touches in a
step;
2. The player may jump off that foot and simultaneously land on
both; neither foot can then be the pivot foot.
Art. 4. After coming to a stop and establishing the pivot foot:
a. The pivot foot may be lifted, but not returned to the playing court,
before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal;
b. The pivot foot shall not be lifted before the ball is released to start a
dribble.
Art. 5. After coming to a stop when neither foot can be the pivot foot:
a. One or both feet may be lifted, but may not be returned to the play-
ing court, before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal;
b. Neither foot shall be lifted, before the ball is released, to start a drib-
ble.

The first part is the same as the NBA rules, but the second part is not ambiguous at all, it says you can lift one or both feet. As traveling rules are roughly equivalent between leagues, with the NBA generally more lax, it can be inferred that this applies to the NBA as well.