Is LeBron REALLY that great?

Bruiser · Post #1 » by **Bruiser** » Sun Mar 8, 2009 5:33 pm

Hey yo!

I watched last game and a furious idea lightened my mind: Is really LeBron James that great?
A great player can have good and bad games but at least tries to take care of business.
Last night LeBron became a just a jumpshooter, something that he does not do that well.
In my mind Wade and Kobe are better skillwise. And Pierce is far better mentalwise.

Any thoughts? Kind regards.

TheOGJabroni · Post #2 » by **TheOGJabroni** » Sun Mar 8, 2009 5:52 pm

Haven't you heard?

Pierce IS the self-proclaimed best basketball player in the world.

Rocky5000 · Post #3 » by **Rocky5000** » Sun Mar 8, 2009 6:14 pm

Yeah, he is that great. I think he's been the best player in the league the last 2 years. Don't go off that one game, he had bad games against us in the playoffs last year too, but he also came closest to knocking us out.
With most players, you want to make them jumpshooters. The Celtics have done the same thing to Wade and Kobe.

Cigamodnalro · Post #4 » by **Cigamodnalro** » Sun Mar 8, 2009 6:14 pm

LeBron makes improbable shots, rarely misses the easy ones, and is sure to get calls in the event that he does. He doesn't have to deal with the officiating difficulties facing big men, but can take advantage of the perimeter touch fouls that guards get, and at 265 lbs no less. Given the dynamic that exists betw refs and players, LBJ is just about the perfect storm.

Post #5 » by **TMU** » Sun Mar 8, 2009 6:31 pm

With good officiating, his general stats will drop while his turnovers go up. He's a great player, but people treat him like the GOAT of basketball.

SuigintouEV · Post #6 » by **SuigintouEV** » Sun Mar 8, 2009 7:24 pm

Ever heard of the Thomas theorem?

i don't quite remember but it went something along the lines of

"If you percieve something as such, it becomes that in its consequences"

Lebron is percieved by his teamates as the best player on the planet - he's definitely damn close.

What happens is, Lebron's confidence in his coach leads to undeniable leadership, which leads to the cavs playing out of thier minds in the playoffs, especially on the defensive end. They make every game a 70pt affair, with thier confidence that lebron will make the shots when it matters. It's kind of ironic, because the teamates are the ones giving lebron so many opportunities to hit the big shot, by getting so many defensive stops.

Lebron's scoring isn't all that great. What he's great at is slashing and playmaking. His jumper is overated. However because he's such a good slasher and playmaker, his team plays amazing defense to keep him happy, which gives him a chance to take more shots than he should.

A good example is 2001 Allen Iverson, who won the MVP. (Except Lebron is 20x better.) IN other words, when lebron's jumper is falling, his teamates' confidence in him is rewarded, and they win games. In all actuality, the best team in the world would probably prefer LBJ to be around ~22ppg on 60% shooting, with 7apg - he could do that.

The same thing applies to the Celtics.

The trio of Garnett/Allen/Pierce was considered sooo deadly. We've seen that in fact it does have flaws, but what it's done, isn't just make the team instantly better on the court. It's made other players work harder, defender harder, play smart. Because they don't wanna let the big 3 down.

mr_sunshine · Post #7 » by **mr_sunshine** » Sun Mar 8, 2009 7:37 pm

The answer is yes, and nothing anyone says in this thread will change that. As much as I hate that prima donna, he will most likely beat the GOAT when all is said and done.

cfan79 · Post #8 » by **cfan79** » Sun Mar 8, 2009 7:39 pm

Yes he is, but it still doesn't mean that he should monopolize every single sportcenter, commercial and porno in the universe.

GreenGrizz · Post #9 » by **GreenGrizz** » Sun Mar 8, 2009 7:53 pm

I think NBA is trying to build around Lebron. Things have gone downhill since Jordan retired. No one was not interested in Kobe-Shaq. It was the Celtics that actually brought NBA back in the business. The refs are still giving games to Lebron.

mr_sunshine · Post #10 » by **mr_sunshine** » Sun Mar 8, 2009 7:54 pm

cfan79 wrote:Yes he is, but it still doesn't mean that he should monopolize every single sportcenter, commercial and porno in the universe.

Seriously! The little caption on the box score for the Cs win on Friday was something like "Celtics slide by LeBron and the Cavs." And last night all they talked about was his triple double, and failed to mention he shot 5/15 for the second night in a row and got outplayed again by Wade.

InBoobieWeTrust · Post #11 » by **InBoobieWeTrust** » Sun Mar 8, 2009 8:22 pm

From a Cavs fan perspective, yeah, he's THAT great...however, there are still games where he criminally under-performs(like against you guys). He really didn't come to play for that game. He's getting better, and he brings it 98% of the time, but my biggest knock on LeBron is that he reverts to pounding the ball on the perimeter the entire game. When he plays off the ball, catches it 15 feet from the basket, he's unstoppable. At times this season he's gone with it, played off the ball a lot, and played into the Cavs new-found system, when he does that we're almost unstoppable...but sometimes in big moments, or in big games, he reverts back to the way we've done things in the past, and it ultimately hurts us. If he ever buys into the system 100%, all the time, every game, every possession, and only takes over when he absolutely needs to....then he could truly be one of the greatest to EVER play. and have the rings to show for it. He trusts his teammates to hit shots in big moments, but he doesn't trust them to create or make the right basketball play to get a good shot in the big moments, once he trusts them to do that all the time, against every team, then I really will have NO complaints about his game.

Well, I'd also love a consistent mid-range game, I feel his biggest problem with his jumper is his shot selection, for example, Pierce has a go to move, and consistent shot selection...it makes him a much better shooter...LeBron can shoot, but he just hoists from wherever he happens to be..and sometimes he goes straight up, sometimes he spins, sometimes he behind the back dribbles and fades, etc. I feel that if he kinda mimicked Pierce/Kobe in that they have their hot spot, they go to it, and they have their go to move...then he'd be a much more efficient shooter.

Only time will tell

Da_James_Gang · Post #12 » by **Da_James_Gang** » Sun Mar 8, 2009 8:28 pm

mr_sunshine wrote:
cfan79 wrote:Yes he is, but it still doesn't mean that he should monopolize every single sportcenter, commercial and porno in the universe.

Seriously! The little caption on the box score for the Cs win on Friday was something like "Celtics slide by LeBron and the Cavs." And last night all they talked about was his triple double, and failed to mention he shot 5/15 for the second night in a row and got outplayed again by Wade.

Didn't realize he got outplayed by Wade last night and then you go on to say again? :roll:

In there meeting before last nights game against the Heat Bron had the better game and went 6 of 7 from 3, last nights game he was 5 of 15 but found other ways to contribute. Wade found other ways to contribute also but he was only 9-23. Don't really see how he outplayed him but okay. Also for the OP, i think its funny how everytime Lebron has a bad game someone makes a post like this. You are not gonna dominate in all 82 games no matter who you are. The Celtics played good defense on him, its the coaches job to make adjustments and try to get Lebron moving off the ball more but they didn't do that. Again Kudos to the Celtics tough defense though, and the Rockets have the ultimate trio to contain Lebron. One tough physical defender in Artest, and a very smart defender in Battier plus a 7'6 center to help clog the lane. I think people forget this kid just turned 24yrs old a couple of months ago(which is scary), he is far from a finished product. He still has a lot of growing up to do and has some more things he needs to work on in his game. I would love to see him add some kind of low post game, when he gets older that would really help him continue to be a dominant player. He already has a body like Karl Malone.

Ed Pinkney · Post #13 » by **Ed Pinkney** » Sun Mar 8, 2009 8:38 pm

I think he is most definitely the best player in the league and because of his physical attributes, ability and most importantly his age, he will be for a long time.

Personally I think the term great requires perspective, after a player has accomplished what they will in their careers. At the moment you would have to say, no he is not a "great" player because he hasn't done the things that "great players" do; win titles, win MVP's, carry his team on his back all season and all playoffs, make team mates better that they ever would have been without him.

I think in all likelihood he will do most, if not all of those things. He is definitely a once in a generation player and since we have never seen anything like him before, possibly a once in the history of the game type player. All we can do is wait and see.

And hope he signs with the Green in 2010.

Triple M · Post #14 » by **Triple M** » Sun Mar 8, 2009 9:17 pm

offensively i think he isn't as dominate as he was two years ago can any Cav fan confirm that to me it looks like his jumper has regressed for some reason. However, his defense is top notch and he hasn't got the credit he deserves for it.

Jammer · Post #15 » by **Jammer** » Sun Mar 8, 2009 9:34 pm

Well, let's see,
LeBron's the best player in the NBA,
had better seasons than the past two League MVP's,
and is almost certain to go down as one of the 5 best players to ever play the game.

So, what are you missing???

mr_sunshine · Post #16 » by **mr_sunshine** » Sun Mar 8, 2009 9:40 pm

Da_James_Gang wrote:
mr_sunshine wrote:
cfan79 wrote:Yes he is, but it still doesn't mean that he should monopolize every single sportcenter, commercial and porno in the universe.

Seriously! The little caption on the box score for the Cs win on Friday was something like "Celtics slide by LeBron and the Cavs." And last night all they talked about was his triple double, and failed to mention he shot 5/15 for the second night in a row and got outplayed again by Wade.

Didn't realize he got outplayed by Wade last night and then you go on to say again?

In there meeting before last nights game against the Heat Bron had the better game and went 6 of 7 from 3, last nights game he was 5 of 15 but found other ways to contribute.

If you say so man...numbers don't lie though. You might want to take a second look at them. :lol:

Seriously though, both are having amazing season I just feel like Wade's is more impressive considering the supporting cast he has and the fact he's averaging almost 1.5 blocks at 6-4.

Athanacropolis · Post #17 » by **Athanacropolis** » Sun Mar 8, 2009 9:42 pm

mr_sunshine wrote:
cfan79 wrote:Yes he is, but it still doesn't mean that he should monopolize every single sportcenter, commercial and porno in the universe.

Seriously! The little caption on the box score for the Cs win on Friday was something like "Celtics slide by LeBron and the Cavs." And last night all they talked about was his triple double, and failed to mention he shot 5/15 for the second night in a row and got outplayed again by Wade.

HAHAHAH! I knew this would happen; I was saying that in the game thread.

Typical ESPN recap: "LEBRON TRIPLE DOUBLE! CHECK OUT THIS DUNK! LOOK AT THIS JUMPSHOT. OH, WHAT A PASS TO Z! LEBRON WITH THE TRICKY REVERSE LAYUP! LEBRON STEALS THE BALL, AND TAKE IT COAST TO COAST! GOODNESS ME, IS THERE ANYTHING THIS GUY CAN'T DO? Cavs lose by 11."

mr_sunshine · Post #18 » by **mr_sunshine** » Sun Mar 8, 2009 9:44 pm

Athanacropolis wrote:
mr_sunshine wrote:
cfan79 wrote:Yes he is, but it still doesn't mean that he should monopolize every single sportcenter, commercial and porno in the universe.

Seriously! The little caption on the box score for the Cs win on Friday was something like "Celtics slide by LeBron and the Cavs." And last night all they talked about was his triple double, and failed to mention he shot 5/15 for the second night in a row and got outplayed again by Wade.

HAHAHAH! I knew this would happen; I was saying that in the game thread.

Typical ESPN recap: "LEBRON TRIPLE DOUBLE! CHECK OUT THIS DUNK! LOOK AT THIS JUMPSHOT. OH, WHAT A PASS TO Z! LEBRON WITH THE TRICKY REVERSE LAYUP! LEBRON STEALS THE BALL, AND TAKE IT COAST TO COAST! GOODNESS ME, IS THERE ANYTHING THIS GUY CAN'T DO? Cavs lose by 11."

Don't forgot that he's already the greatest SF ever. Larry who?

Post #19 » by **Bleeding Green** » Sun Mar 8, 2009 9:46 pm

Yes, he's REALLY that great. He's probably having the greatest season anyone has ever had.

Also, his jumpshot isn't that great. Imagine when he masters that. And he will. Hate the guy all you want for flopping and crying and probably being an egotistical ****, but don't deny that he's the best basketball player you'll probably ever see.

Athanacropolis · Post #20 » by **Athanacropolis** » Sun Mar 8, 2009 10:00 pm

Bleeding Green wrote:Yes, he's REALLY that great. He's probably having the greatest season anyone has ever had.

Also, his jumpshot isn't that great. Imagine when he masters that. And he will. Hate the guy all you want for flopping and crying and probably being an egotistical ****, but don't deny that he's the best basketball player you'll probably ever see.

This. Exactly how I feel about the guy. I watched his first ever pro game against the Kings with some friends at college, ready to not believe the hype, and we walked away from the TV completely stunned. I literally couldn't believe my eyes that this 18 year old kid was a few rebounds and assists shy of a triple-double--albeit in a Cleveland loss--and looked like a man among boys out there. He's a one-in-a-billion talent, for sure.