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The RealGM Wizards Board Draft Thread 2008/2009

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Re: The RealGM Wizards Board Draft Thread 2008/2009 

Post#1001 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Wed Mar 11, 2009 2:21 am

MF23 wrote:CCJ, what is your opinion on Larry Sanders of VCU?

I really like his length and attitude towards defense.

Missed the whole CAA tourney and don't know a thing about him. I know about Maynor's stats and past exploits. That's it. Perhaps I can learn about him on the fly ....

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Larry-Sanders-5148/

DX's profile on him is one year old. Freakishly long kid, with 7'7" wingspan. I bet WizardDynasty loves him. Is he bow-legged? :)

http://espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=36534

MF23, looking at this season's stats and his progression from last season to this season, I see his numbers got marginally better and that he just EXPLODED against George Mason. Had 18 points, 20 rebounds, 7 blocks that game. :o I wonder why his minutes went up and his fouls went up but his blocks were down (until that last game!) this season?

What I infer from his stats is that he's developing offensively and is very foul prone at the college level. Not a scorer or a shooter but a solid rebouder and shot blocker. Seems to me that he'd be better served to stay in school one more season to where he can be more of the man on offense.

Am I close, MF23?
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Re: The RealGM Wizards Board Draft Thread 2008/2009 

Post#1002 » by Severn Hoos » Wed Mar 11, 2009 3:27 am

MF23 wrote:CCJ, what is your opinion on Larry Sanders of VCU?

I really like his length and attitude towards defense.


Oh man, I used to love that show!

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Actually, he's one I'd missed too. Yesterday was the first time I'd seen him play (don't remember him from 2 years ago, if he was on the team then). 91" wingspan is just ridiculous. Don't think he'd be a good fit on the Wiz. Probably ends up like similar size/skillset players: Justin Williams, Jermareo Davidson - gets a look in the league, but spends most of his time bouncing around the D-league.
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Re: The RealGM Wizards Board Draft Thread 2008/2009 

Post#1003 » by Ruzious » Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:20 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
MF23 wrote:CCJ, what is your opinion on Larry Sanders of VCU?

I really like his length and attitude towards defense.

Missed the whole CAA tourney and don't know a thing about him. I know about Maynor's stats and past exploits. That's it. Perhaps I can learn about him on the fly ....

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Larry-Sanders-5148/

DX's profile on him is one year old. Freakishly long kid, with 7'7" wingspan. I bet WizardDynasty loves him. Is he bow-legged? :)

http://espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=36534

MF23, looking at this season's stats and his progression from last season to this season, I see his numbers got marginally better and that he just EXPLODED against George Mason. Had 18 points, 20 rebounds, 7 blocks that game. :o I wonder why his minutes went up and his fouls went up but his blocks were down (until that last game!) this season?

What I infer from his stats is that he's developing offensively and is very foul prone at the college level. Not a scorer or a shooter but a solid rebouder and shot blocker. Seems to me that he'd be better served to stay in school one more season to where he can be more of the man on offense.

Am I close, MF23?

I was wondering what they were talking about with the 7.8 blocks per adjusted 40. He's only getting half that this season. Shot-blockers without NBA bodies usually don't make it very far - Theo Ratliff being the exception. I'm surprised they have him going so high (13th) in the 2010 draft. Great show, Sev. :) I hope Justin Williams makes it. Davidson - I was unimpressed, because at Alabama - he never figured out that he couldn't shoot.
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Re: The RealGM Wizards Board Draft Thread 2008/2009 

Post#1004 » by Dat2U » Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:33 pm

doclinkin wrote:
Still if forced to pick 5th (and no Ricky in the draft) and unable to trade, I suspect Ernie would take Henderson. EG might sniff at Jennings as a hypertalent whose game is better suited for the NBA than Euroball-- the kid will test well, and positively blaze in the one-on-one /two-on-two workout circuit. And despite the stats Europe was good for his game. But EG'd be more likely to drop a rumor of his interest to see who bites on a trade-- then ultimately not pull the trigger, worrying about the learning curve & waiting on the talent.

I dunno. Weird draft. Lots of good smaller players.


Ernie always, always goes for the guy with the highest upside. McGee, Young, Blatche, McGuire even Pech. Who some scouting reports had pegged as one with Van Horn-like potential even though he had struggled mightly in the Ukrainian League.

I'm not sure Henderson would be one who represents that with a top 5 pick. If it Jennings, then he's the pick, regardless of his position. My guess, as long as Griffin is gone, EG will settle for the best deal and not want to bring in another rookie into the fold considering all the young players we already have.

We'll see another Jamison type deal. I'm begining to think Etan and/or James will be gone by draft day. I think Songaila & Stevenson will stay b/c EG may believe that both can still be a part of the rotation and contribute.

I'm sure there's some quality vet out there that some team will look to trade for expiring contract(s) and a mid-to-high lottery pick. We just haven't figured it out yet.

If there's like a 20% chance of landing Griffin, then there's about an 80% chance we trade the pick.
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Re: The RealGM Wizards Board Draft Thread 2008/2009 

Post#1005 » by nate33 » Wed Mar 11, 2009 2:19 pm

Assuming we don't land the #1 pick, I figure the best-case is to trade down from the 2-5 range into something in the 7-10 range and grab Henderson. A bunch of simple trades could make that work:

Washington trades: #4 + Stevenson
Minnesota trades: #6 + Madsen
(throw in an Etan + Young for Miller swap and this looks very much like EJ's M.O.)

or

Washington trades: #4 + Stevenson
Toronto trades: #8 + TPE (assuming they don't resign Marion)

or

Washington trades: #4 + Stevenson + Etan
New York trades: #9 + QRich

All of these deals have us dumping Stevenson's 2010/11 salary while also saving a little bit this year.
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Re: The RealGM Wizards Board Draft Thread 2008/2009 

Post#1006 » by jgozalb » Wed Mar 11, 2009 3:20 pm

Couple news on Ricky:

1.- He has been recently named DPOY 2008. Its the first time this award is being given.

2.- His father talking to Tubasket.com:

“Sería posible que se marchase si fuese top 3 del draft, es cuestión de hacer números. Será una decisión consensuada, pero depende de Ricky. Es un privilegiado por la cabeza que tiene. Nos escucha a todos, y luego ya decidirá”.

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"It would be possible for him to go if he is a TOP-3, it's a matter of numbers (money). It's a decision that we will all take toguether, but it depends on Ricky. He is a very wise man. He will listen to all of us, and then he will decide"

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Ricky Rubio's father.
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Re: The RealGM Wizards Board Draft Thread 2008/2009 

Post#1007 » by Severn Hoos » Wed Mar 11, 2009 3:48 pm

nate33 wrote:Assuming we don't land the #1 pick, I figure the best-case is to trade down from the 2-5 range into something in the 7-10 range and grab Henderson. A bunch of simple trades could make that work:

Washington trades: #4 + Stevenson
Minnesota trades: #6 + Madsen
(throw in an Etan + Young for Miller swap and this looks very much like EJ's M.O.)

or

Washington trades: #4 + Stevenson
Toronto trades: #8 + TPE (assuming they don't resign Marion)

or

Washington trades: #4 + Stevenson + Etan
New York trades: #9 + QRich

All of these deals have us dumping Stevenson's 2010/11 salary while also saving a little bit this year.


nate, I like all of those, but especially the 1st one. With the Young/Miller component added, our lineup would be:

Arenas/Critt/James (Buyout?)
Miller/Henderson
Butler/McGuire/2nd Rd pick?
Jamison/Blatche/Song (Madsen buyout/release)
Haywood/McGee/Pech

The only "challenge" is that the roster is really unbalanced: Heavy with veterans and offense (other than Haywood) in the starting 5, lots of defense and youth in the 2nd team. But that's one that a good coach can overcome, be judicious about substitution patterns, etc. and overcome. And several guys can fill multiple positions: Miller, McGuire, Blatche, maybe McGee - gives lots of mix-n-match possibilities. So maybe I should restate - the roster is balanced, even if the lineups might not be. (don't know if that made sense to anyone else, but I'm sticking with it)
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Re: The RealGM Wizards Board Draft Thread 2008/2009 

Post#1008 » by nate33 » Wed Mar 11, 2009 4:41 pm

Severn Hoos wrote:nate, I like all of those, but especially the 1st one. With the Young/Miller component added

That's a deal I've been considering for a while now. If Abe is going to pay a luxtax, I think EG needs to push for serious contention rather than the 48-win ceiling that the team currently has. The Young+Etan for Miller trade (perhaps with Pech thrown in to make it a slight salary savings) gives us a catch-and-shoot assassin and a guy who can fill in at starting SF for the 15 games that Butler will miss.

We don't really give up much. Even if Miller departs in 2010, we'd ultimately end up losing just one year of Young's rookie contract. After that, he's a free agent anyhow. Even ignoring the pick, we'd have a pretty well-balanced roster. I'd start DMac and Butler at SG and SF and bring Miller off the bench at both spots. That gives us more D in the starting lineup and an offensive option on the second unit.

The best-case scenario is to make that Miller trade while also landing Blake Griffin. We could then use Blatche to dump Stevenson off on Memphis, leaving us with this lineup:
PG Arenas/Critt
SG DMac/Miller
SF Butler/Miller
PF Jamison/Griffin
C Haywood/McGee
:o

(I'm sorry. Is this not the Trade Thread?)
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Re: The RealGM Wizards Board Draft Thread 2008/2009 

Post#1009 » by ZonkertheBrainless » Wed Mar 11, 2009 5:37 pm

aargh! the boring trade talk! it is everywhere!!!
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Re: The RealGM Wizards Board Draft Thread 2008/2009 

Post#1010 » by doclinkin » Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:04 pm

Dat2U wrote:Ernie always, always goes for the guy with the highest upside. McGee, Young, Blatche, McGuire even Pech. Who some scouting reports had pegged as one with Van Horn-like potential even though he had struggled mightly in the Ukrainian League.


Disagree, but only a little. Ernie has a draft board same as everyone else and cross-ranks players by talent and need. You don't pass on an upside guy from a higher talent tier, but with guys of equivalent talent you take the guy that fits your team's needs and current coach's system.

You can tell by the guys he brings in for the draft. Pecherov was a 'system' pick. We needed a big rebounding player who could sub for Jamison and upgrade the size of our defense. Here was a true 7 footer who destroyed the guys he played against in our one workout with him (HIlton Armstrong et al). But we were working out other similar players all that draft cycle. Rolled the dice on the best of who was left of the Bigs.

Blatche and McGuire being second rounders fit perfectly into the GMEG method. At that point the chaff is cleared away and you're looking at a choice between NBAer or not. Less questions. You take the best available body regardless of position.

But Nick Young was the most talented 2-guard in a year where we worked out a ton of 2-guards. I think we tried to trade up to take Spencer Hawes or somebody, a big I think (this was per Dave Johnson, wiz radio guy who was blogging from their draft room) but they were ecstatic when Nick was still left at 15 or whatever. Notice we picked up another of the combo/2-guards we tested in that draft.

I'd bet that some small part of GMEG's assessment is colored by other team's opinions of a guy. Because talent is just a tradeable commodity. If other teams think he has value, you can get what you need from them. Dunno.

Seems to me from interviews Ernie doesn't really trust draft picks as players, he'd rather get an instantly productive player and gamble his picks on a cheaper 2nd round guy. (He loves his round 2 bargains). I suspect he goes into every draft looking to deal. Sometimes you can, sometimes you cain't.

Way I see it, if Ricky comes out, this is a 3 player draft. Griff no question, then Ricky, Thabeet for various teams, various reasons. Those are the players that a handful of teams will try to make a play for, give up something of relative value. Ricky sells tickets, and gives nostalgic GMs Maravich flashbacks; Thabeet is a legit defensive center on the team with the #2 defense in the NCAAs. Griff is franchise TE/frunnngback good for dozens of touchdowns either running or passing. Or something.

Other than that, teams will be willing to sit and see what falls to them, barring something interesting in Tourney play. No doubt Jennings has talent, I just don't see teams desperate to trade up to 4/5 to get him. No marquee offers. No significant bargains and steals. So, if picking at 5 with nobody blowing up your phone, GMEG will take best equivalent talent at a need position. Backcourt back-up looks to be the deepest hole right now. And I don't see any absolute steals or undervalued players likely to be on the board. Jennings included. Nice talent, but he's taken a hit playing in Europe.

Okay, one. I expect at 5 with no better trade, GMEG would take Greg Monroe if he stayed in the draft. (Then deal Dray.) I just don't think he'll come out this year.

My best guess.
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Re: The RealGM Wizards Board Draft Thread 2008/2009 

Post#1011 » by Ruzious » Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:20 pm

doclinkin wrote:
Dat2U wrote:But Nick Young was the most talented 2-guard in a year where we worked out a ton of 2-guards. I think we tried to trade up to take Spencer Hawes or somebody, a big I think (this was per Dave Johnson, wiz radio guy who was blogging from their draft room) but they were ecstatic when Nick was still left at 15 or whatever. Notice we picked up another of the combo/2-guards we tested in that draft.

Yup, EG was a huge Hawes man - not exactly the high ceiling type. He also didn't really go for just great athletes with the Bucks.
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Re: The RealGM Wizards Board Draft Thread 2008/2009 

Post#1012 » by nate33 » Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:28 pm

I'm curious what EG will do if we're picking at #5 or so and we're choosing between one of the second tier PF's (Hill, Monroe) and Harden. Clearly, we have little use for another big man project so Harden might be the best bet.

Fortunately, there are a couple of teams a few draft slots behind us who would be interested in a scoring SG - Toronto, New York and Indiana, to name a few. Maybe the smart move is to pick Harden and then look for the trade down where we acquire a SG with less offensive aptitude but who might be a better fit (Henderson, Turner, etc.).

If no trade materializes, at least we drafted a guy who plays the position where we are weakest.
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Re: The RealGM Wizards Board Draft Thread 2008/2009 

Post#1013 » by barelyawake » Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:41 pm

Clearly, we have little use for another big man project so Harden might be the best bet.

I swear to God (or Allah), if that ends up the thinking (banking on Blatche), and Hill blows-up (which he very well might), I will join the Taliban. Then, I will marry into whatever tribe I need to just to get them into the country. And I'll let them use my blender for mixing whatever they need, as I ply them with stories of the great Satan they call Abe and his mighty palace of American greed called the Phone Booth.
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Re: The RealGM Wizards Board Draft Thread 2008/2009 

Post#1014 » by nate33 » Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:44 pm

barelyawake wrote:
Clearly, we have little use for another big man project so Harden might be the best bet.

I swear to God (or Allah), if that ends up the thinking (banking on Blatche), and Hill blow-ups up (which he very well might), I will join the Taliban. Then, I will marry into whatever tribe I need to just to get them into the country. And I'll let them use my blender for mixing whatever they need, as I ply them with stories of the great Satan they call Abe and his mighty palace of American greed called the Phone Booth.

I'm not opposed to drafting Hill and then trading Blatche (either for a quality 2-guard or cap relief). All I'm saying is that I have little interest in having Blatche, Hill and McGee on a team where Jamison and Haywood are already entrenched as starters. (Not to mention that Songaila is around to take minutes from the youngsters too.)
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Re: The RealGM Wizards Board Draft Thread 2008/2009 

Post#1015 » by barelyawake » Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:14 pm

Yep, with ya there Nate. Pick one, trade the other one, sign McDyess.
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Re: The RealGM Wizards Board Draft Thread 2008/2009 

Post#1016 » by mhd » Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:43 pm

nate33 wrote:
barelyawake wrote:
Clearly, we have little use for another big man project so Harden might be the best bet.

I swear to God (or Allah), if that ends up the thinking (banking on Blatche), and Hill blow-ups up (which he very well might), I will join the Taliban. Then, I will marry into whatever tribe I need to just to get them into the country. And I'll let them use my blender for mixing whatever they need, as I ply them with stories of the great Satan they call Abe and his mighty palace of American greed called the Phone Booth.

I'm not opposed to drafting Hill and then trading Blatche (either for a quality 2-guard or cap relief). All I'm saying is that I have little interest in having Blatche, Hill and McGee on a team where Jamison and Haywood are already entrenched as starters. (Not to mention that Songaila is around to take minutes from the youngsters too.)



EG will trade Blatche if we draft Hill. He's not reaching for a fit. He always goes for talent. Blatche is very valuable piece. If we draft a big, Blatche is gone.

Again, I'd expect Blatche+Songaila+Stevenson for Cardinal, Blatche+Songaila+Stevenson for Wilkins+filler, etc. type deals.
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Re: The RealGM Wizards Board Draft Thread 2008/2009 

Post#1017 » by Ruzious » Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:55 pm

If you go with 2 things with a high pick, you usually won't go wrong:
1. BPA
2. Value

If that causes a roster imbalance, then that can be fixed via trade.

But when you stray from the 2, you open yourself up more to problems and regrets.
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Re: The RealGM Wizards Board Draft Thread 2008/2009 

Post#1018 » by nate33 » Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:18 pm

Ruzious wrote:If you go with 2 things with a high pick, you usually won't go wrong:
1. BPA
2. Value

If that causes a roster imbalance, then that can be fixed via trade.

But when you stray from the 2, you open yourself up more to problems and regrets.

I don't think anybody disagrees with this. But as Doc points out, if you are picking between a handful of guys on roughly the same tier, it doesn't hurt to go for need. (The real question is whether or not Harden and Hill are on the same "tier".) If nothing else, when other teams can see that you are overloaded at a position, they'll lowball you in a trade offer because they know you're desperate to make a move. That problem is magnified when you have capable veteran starters who taking most of the minutes, making it difficult to "showcase" your youngsters.

One more consideration: many of the teams picking behind us are already set at PF but lack a SG. Harden might be a better asset in a trade down scenario. Minnesota, Toronto, Golden State and New York all have decent PF prospects but lack quality SG's.
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Re: The RealGM Wizards Board Draft Thread 2008/2009 

Post#1019 » by ZonkertheBrainless » Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:30 pm

but... but.. but...

don't we need a SG? Stevenson is done. Young is not ready. Who is supposed to play the two for us next year? McGuire?

Seriously?
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Re: The RealGM Wizards Board Draft Thread 2008/2009 

Post#1020 » by Ruzious » Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:46 pm

nate33 wrote:
Ruzious wrote:If you go with 2 things with a high pick, you usually won't go wrong:
1. BPA
2. Value

If that causes a roster imbalance, then that can be fixed via trade.

But when you stray from the 2, you open yourself up more to problems and regrets.

I don't think anybody disagrees with this. But as Doc points out, if you are picking between a handful of guys on roughly the same tier, it doesn't hurt to go for need. (The real question is whether or not Harden and Hill are on the same "tier".) If nothing else, when other teams can see that you are overloaded at a position, they'll lowball you in a trade offer because they know you're desperate to make a move. That problem is magnified when you have capable veteran starters who taking most of the minutes, making it difficult to "showcase" your youngsters.

One more consideration: many of the teams picking behind us are already set at PF but lack a SG. Harden might be a better asset in a trade down scenario. Minnesota, Toronto, Golden State and New York all have decent PF prospects but lack quality SG's.

There are people who disagree - believe me - preferring need over BPA. People in this very thread, and some GMs do it every year. Now, they might rationalize in the way you're doing it, but if it walks like a duck and smells like chicken... :wink: I see your point about supply and demand, but when you're making a decision with a high pick, you just can't worry about that. If you settle for less than the BPA, you're almost always going to regret it. With 30 or so teams out there to deal with, if you're a competent GM, you'll find a way to deal with the roster balancing. Now, if you trade down, that's a viable alternative - if... you get value - and usually trading a high pick you can get value.
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