Nash publically disrespects Stromile Swift

[rag-time4]

This is excessive and reactionary and you know it; you're angry because of a perceived shot at your favorite player which wasn't even a shot at Stro so much as at management because the Suns are REALLY missing what Boris could have brought (remember, the Suns went to the WCFs without Amare but with Boris at the 4/5.

Talking about "cultural bias" is just patently riduclous, you make it sound like he dropped an n-bomb or was talking about the 'hood or something. Diaw >>> Swift, this much is clear. He's healthier, he's more skilled defensively, he's VASTLY superior on offense and he's a proven NBA commodity as a starter on a team that nearly made the Finals. Swift, not so much.

Why are Stromile's defensive abilities not considered 'skills'??

Well, the only major skill I see that he possesses is the timing he has on his blocks; that's a legitimate skill. His defensive footwork leaves much to be desired, as does the way he uses his body. I'd suggset that he isn't the savviest help rotation defender, either, unless it's because he's committing to contest a shot. He's a valuable defender, but if you want to see a SKILLED defender, you watch Tim Duncan play. Or Kurt Thomas. Or a handful of wing guys like Battier, Bowen, etc. Swift coasts (and I use the term loosely) on athletic ability, not on skills.

All of those things make him a limited defender. comparatively. Diaw could guard 3 or 4 positions; Swift cannot. He can guard the 4/5. Diaw could guard the 3, could guard the 2, could sometimes Marion out and guard the 1 in short stretches against guys like Parker, using his length. Swift can't do any of that consistently.

But yes, since he has few offensive skills, it's further true that he's limited in that way as well.

You are overreacting. I'd like to add that your reputation precedes you, so it would behoove you to calm down and listen to the moderators of the forum, ragtime.

In the spirit of respecting authority, I'll ask: may I respond to you here tsherkin?

[TASTIC]

^It's a forum, go nuts. Just show the respect you've been shown by the big fella

[WTFsunsFTW]

This thread just went from suck to blow.

[rag-time4]

I'm not trying to stir the pot unnecessarily. Saying Swift isn't even a true backup PF is disrespectful, incorrect, and way out of line. Nash's comments on skills reveal a cultural bias that seems to be prevelant.

This is excessive and reactionary and you know it; you're angry because of a perceived shot at your favorite player which wasn't even a shot at Stro so much as at management because the Suns are REALLY missing what Boris could have brought (remember, the Suns went to the WCFs without Amare but with Boris at the 4/5.

Talking about "cultural bias" is just patently riduclous, you make it sound like he dropped an n-bomb or was talking about the 'hood or something. Diaw >>> Swift, this much is clear. He's healthier, he's more skilled defensively, he's VASTLY superior on offense and he's a proven NBA commodity as a starter on a team that nearly made the Finals. Swift, not so much.

Why are Stromile's defensive abilities not considered 'skills'??

Well, the only major skill I see that he possesses is the timing he has on his blocks; that's a legitimate skill. His defensive footwork leaves much to be desired, as does the way he uses his body. I'd suggset that he isn't the savviest help rotation defender, either, unless it's because he's committing to contest a shot. He's a valuable defender, but if you want to see a SKILLED defender, you watch Tim Duncan play. Or Kurt Thomas. Or a handful of wing guys like Battier, Bowen, etc. Swift coasts (and I use the term loosely) on athletic ability, not on skills.

All of those things make him a limited defender. comparatively. Diaw could guard 3 or 4 positions; Swift cannot. He can guard the 4/5. Diaw could guard the 3, could guard the 2, could sometimes Marion out and guard the 1 in short stretches against guys like Parker, using his length. Swift can't do any of that consistently.

But yes, since he has few offensive skills, it's further true that he's limited in that way as well.

You are overreacting. I'd like to add that your reputation precedes you, so it would behoove you to calm down and listen to the moderators of the forum, ragtime.

Concerning his skills, I can only hope that you watch him with an open mind (and heart). His playing style is, in my opinion, unorthodox, so try to judge him based on how effective he is or isn't at what he's trying to do when he makes a particular decision on the court. The three most important impacts he has, in my view, are 1) deterrence from taking shots, particularly for smaller players (they tend to pass instead of shoot more often due to him being a defensive threat 2) drawing crowds in the paint (for an unheralded player, he often draws double and triple coverage due to his explosiveness and aggression) 3) His aggression provides energy for his team and for his crowd.

Concerning my comments on culture, I don't see myself as overracting, nor are my comments motivated by a desire to protect my favorite player. My comments are motivated by my rejection of culturally biased interpretations or understanding of 'basketball skills' and what they are.

Steve Nash said, without naming Stromile, that Stromile does not possess obvious skills and talents to the degree of Boris Diaw. My argument is that Steve Nash's view of what constitutes 'skills and talents' is inherently flawed, limited, and culturally biased.

To put it simply, one label you could probably apply to Diaw is that he is a 'finesse' player. So is Steve Nash. If we agree, (do we?) then my question would be, why is it that the 'finesse' player is the one who is considered a 'skilled' player?

As I pointed out before:

Or are aggressive dunks and blocks not considered skills? Diaw has a career average of 1.8 FT attempts per game, with a career high of 2.9. Swift, in less playing time with less career FG attempts per game, has a career average of 3.1 FT attempts per game with a career high of 4.5.

Is getting to the foul line also not a skill? Swift has a higher career FT attempts per game than Steve Nash, who sits at 2.8.

Stromile's average free throw attempts per game are higher than Diaw's career high, which came in the season he filled in for Amaré. Getting to the line and being effective while playing with an aggressive style are major major skills. Getting to the line means drawing fouls on the opposition. Drawing fouls means forcing the opposing players to totally change how they play, opening themselves for further punishment.

To his credit, Diaw averages a lot of assists, way more than Stromile. That's a skill too! I'm not saying that Diaw is unskilled. What I'm saying is that Stromile is also skilled, but the problem is that Stromile's skills are not respected.

Diaw's career high in rebounding also came in the 05/06 season, and he posted a 6.9 average in 35.5 minutes per game. That is an incredibly unimpressive number, particularly on a team that plays with such a fast style (meaning more shots per game and more rebound chances). So what about Stromile's rebounding? Nash himself has said that rebounding is one of the things that makes Diaw versatile and talented. What about Stromile, who gives his team even more rebounding presence? Is his rebounding somehow less skilled because he's more athletic than Diaw? So we have to insult Stromile by saying that he can simply jump for rebounds while Diaw has to use his smarts? In truth, Stromile has played much of his career at Center matched up with bigger players, so he has to use smarts too, as well as skills, to block out his bigger opponents.

And how about defensive presence? Diaw's career high for blocks is 1.0, again lower than Swift's career average with limited playing time. Diaw's blocks are at least respectable, and show that he does play some defense, but I think that Stromile has even more defensive skills. Stromile and Diaw have the same steals per game average for their career, though Swift has played fewer minutes per game.

Which player is more effective at fronting the post? Which is more effective at help defense? Which is more effective at showing against opposing guards in the pick and roll and denying penetration?

I think Swift wins on all these skills.

And as for my reputation, it comes from the way i responded to posts like this:

Athleticism != Skills. Swift isn't a basketball player, he's a physical specimens. Being an athletic freak doesn't automatically make you a basketball player. Swift's basketball IQ is horrific, and it shows on both ends of the court. His offense is horrible, his man-defense is worse than Amare, and he's never in the right spots on the court. He can put up numbers but is incapable of establishing any sort of consistency. There's a reason why he's been bounce around the league. Bottom line: he's a bad player.

He should get more PT, but that's not the point, he isn't a difference maker anyway. And that's not what Nash was saying in his comments. It's not about Swift, it's about missing Boris and his skills, especially now with Amare injured.

I view the basketball argument of mkot here as totally inaccurate. Swift's offense is excellent, and he possesses excellent offensive versatility. He is effective posting up, facing up and slashing, and shooting mid range shots. He can get his own shots off and get to the line (both important skills) and he shoots a decent percentage from the line (same as Diaw!)

In terms of man defense, Stromile does a good job of consistently forcing his opponents to take contested shots when they attempt to score over him. He is consistent about trying to block the hook shots of opposing big men rather than just letting them shoot over him without even jumping. Because of his aggressive style, he forces opponents, like Nowitzki, to abandon their fadeaway shot in the post and instead rely on pump fakes and trying to get him in the air. Swift is also effective at fronting the post and has gotten many steals this way. He has had to front the post often because of being undersized at center.

In terms of positioning... he is already directing traffic in phoenix and helping the younger players get in position offensively. Defensively he shows excellent awareness and is excellent about rotating and blocking out during pick and roll switch situations. When the pick setter rolls to the basket, Swift does a good job of picking that man up and preventing him from getting to the rim unmolested. Swift also does a good job of providing defensive presence in the paint while avoiding defensive 3 second violations. He is always aware of the 3 second rule and you can see him constantly moving back and forth between being alone in the paint, stepping out, and re-entering, or touching an offensive player to show that he's within arms distance.

Where I got in trouble on forums before was making a social commentary on where this inaccuracy comes from.