Prime KJ vs Prime Nash

Point forward · Post #1 » by **Point forward** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 6:23 pm

On the PC board, I once compared the 1990s Suns with the 2000s D'Antoni Suns. I got wildly different answers on the question whose PG was better, KJ or Nash. Both were offensive monsters, but their style of play is quite different.

I remember KJ as an aggressive slasher who could pass and dunk. He could not hit a 3 to save his life, but he could defend, was 7th and 8th in stacked MVP votings and was the only guy not named Magic or Oscar who averaged 22/12. Nash is a classic floor general who makes laser-like passes and is a GOAT shooter. However, you know his defensive issues as well. Still, Nash is not double MVP for nothing.

I still think that prime Nash is better, but if yes, by how much? Or is prime KJ *really* better?

Stix · Post #2 » by **Stix** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 6:27 pm

prime KJ made it to the finals only to run into Jordan and the Bulls, so KJ.

pidi · Post #3 » by **pidi** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 6:29 pm

no doubt that kj was a real general, steve is a little too soft to get the suns over the hump.
so i take kj...

Post #4 » by **rsavaj** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 6:40 pm

I take KJ over Kidd and Nash any day of the week.

b-ball forever · Post #5 » by **b-ball forever** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 7:30 pm

It's a wash IMO, considering both are in their prime and healthy.

Nash has the better individual accolades, but he wouldn't have gotten em if he was playing in the same league as prime Jordan/Dream/Malone etc like KJ did.

KJ got to finals unlike Nash, but he wasn't even the best player on his team, Barkley was. Prime Nash was easily the best player on D'Antoni's Suns on the other hand. Nash also misses less games and doesn't have the health issues KJ did, despite playing at an older age.

KJ was ubber athletic, a much better defender, and a much worse shooter.

Who should be taken over the other depends on the supporting cast. If u have an athletic group of players that can run up and down, spot up shoot, and play defense then Nash is the better fit. If not then KJ is usually the better fit, he was kinda like a CP3 that can dunk.

Prime Nash was the better fit for the Suns during the D'Antoni era when Marion/Kurt Thomas/Diaw/Bell were around, a healthy KJ would be the better fit on the current Suns roster.

NashtyNas · Post #6 » by **NashtyNas** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 8:20 pm

KJ > Nash, without a doubt. He was just as great offensively, and defensively, he destroyed Nash by a mile.

dantian · Post #7 » by **dantian** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 9:02 pm

KJ in a landslide because he could score one-on-one at any time. Nash's impact is more of a steady kind that is particularly nice to watch in regular season. But when the defense tightens in playoffs, his ability to score is far inferior to KJ's.
On defense, KJ was often assigned to task to cover MJ with his quick feet. It's a pity that he used to be injured so much.

toucansma · Post #8 » by **toucansma** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 10:09 pm

Very tough, I grew up watching K.J. and was a huge fan... I think in primes I would take Nash just for the fact that Nash can dominate a game without scoring. I believe Nash has that much of an impact. I would not fault someone for picking K.J. though. In a landside however, no I don't see that. K.J. was a much better defender, but I see Nash as a much better offensive player (shooter, passer, screener, etc.) K.J. had exceptional assist numbers, but Nash is a more prolific distributor. People also underrate Nash's ability to score 1 on 1 (as I see above). He is actually exceptional at getting to the basket, which is echoed by many announcers (look at the move Nash put on K-Mart last week when he was trash talking). I just see Nash as being able to do some many of the little things that are not on the stat sheet or scoreboard.

I would not hold getting to the finals vs not against Nash. K.J had a team of Barkley, Majerle, Dumas, Ainge, Chambers, etc, so he was very well surrounded.

So overall, Nash but a little.

chrice · Post #9 » by **chrice** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 10:32 pm

I'd pick Nash for the same reasons a lot of people are picking KJ. Ultimately, a great point guard needs to have the ability to spread the floor. KJ's bread and butter was a lot of attack the basket, collapse the D and kick it out. Nash can do this in so many more ways. He can drive around a defender and make a cross court wrap around pass for the open shot. He can drive into a zone defense, run circles around it, and get an easy layup. His defender cannot leave him because he knows that he'll pull up for a 3 in transition and just punish him.

I've seen a lot of point guards in my life time, but not many that have the court vision and insane passing ability that Nash has. His understanding of the game, how he executes plays, and his ability to run the offense is underrated.

b-ball forever · Post #10 » by **b-ball forever** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:01 pm

Yeah, the guy who thinks that Nash has issues performing in the playoffs when the defense tightens up is outta his mind.

Prime Nash :

2005 reg season - 15.5 pts/11.5 asts
2005 playoffs - 24 pts/11.3 asts

2006 reg season - 18.8/10.5
2006 playoffs - 20.4/10.2

2007 reg season : 17/11
2007 playoffs : 19/13.3

If anything Nash steps it up bigtime in the playoffs

dantian · Post #11 » by **dantian** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 12:57 am

b-ball forever wrote:Yeah, the guy who thinks that Nash has issues performing in the playoffs when the defense tightens up is outta his mind.

Prime Nash :

2005 reg season - 15.5 pts/11.5 asts
2005 playoffs - 24 pts/11.3 asts

2006 reg season - 18.8/10.5
2006 playoffs - 20.4/10.2

2007 reg season : 17/11
2007 playoffs : 19/13.3

If anything Nash steps it up bigtime in the playoffs

I wasn't talking stats. Spurs killed us because they absolutely limited Nash's impact. He is a much better shooter particularly at 3pt line. But the way he dominates the ball, he must take more responsibility for their failure. In a sense, KJ is a faster version of Paul, while the latter is stronger. The Suns team with Paul or KJ instead of Nash in the last two years would have had a better chance to win the title. They'd have put Spurs defense into trouble just as Tony Parker did to us over and over again.

chrice · Post #12 » by **chrice** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 2:44 am

dantian wrote: I wasn't talking stats. Spurs killed us because they absolutely limited Nash's impact. He is a much better shooter particularly at 3pt line. But the way he dominates the ball, he must take more responsibility for their failure. In a sense, KJ is a faster version of Paul, while the latter is stronger. The Suns team with Paul or KJ instead of Nash in the last two years would have had a better chance to win the title. They'd have put Spurs defense into trouble just as Tony Parker did to us over and over again.

I disagree with every one of those statements you've made. Anyone who thinks that Nash didn't have an impact in the playoffs against the Spurs is crazy. In his prime, he was the single player that the team relied on the most. When Nash was out of the game, everything started to collapse. Please do not compare KJ to Paul. Aside from maybe position, they are two completely different players. I also disagree that inserting Paul or KJ means we had a better chance to win the title. You can't just say, if I insert player B for player A, that automatically makes us a better team. I will bet money that they couldn't have ran the offense any better than Nash did in his MVP years. Also, last time I checked, the Hornets already went up against the Spurs defense and lost.

garrick · Post #13 » by **garrick** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 3:59 am

KJ playing in today's guard oriented NBA would be a lot more effective compared to the 90's. The one knock on him was that he shot so poorly from the 3pt line though that one season when they shortened the line he shot a respectable percentage. I believe he shot in the 40's in the 96-97 season.

Frank Lee · Post #14 » by **Frank Lee** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 12:19 pm

I'd take a sub-prime DJ over both

ihateginobili · Post #15 » by **ihateginobili** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 11:32 pm

Kidd should have retired a Sun from the get-go. It's to bad that idiot Bryan Colangelo traded him away for breadcrums. Kidd led the freakin Nets to two NBA Finals. Kidd does everything better then Nash and KJ, except shoot the ball like Nash does, but his defense and rebounding and floor vision is better. Also he doesnt turn the ball over like Nash.

vincecarter4pres · Post #16 » by **vincecarter4pres** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 3:18 am

I'm going KJ.

impulsenine · Post #17 » by **impulsenine** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:18 pm

I would say ...

BOTH. *orgasm*

God, can you imagine? Inside/outside, defense, passing...

I'd take a Shaq/Alvin/Chuck/KJ/Stevie

... I am allowed to fantasize right now. Shut up.

WTFsunsFTW · Post #18 » by **WTFsunsFTW** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:21 am

WTF KJ FTW

Sun Scorched · Post #19 » by **Sun Scorched** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:49 am

I remember that team with KJ, Kidd and Nash on it at the same time... that has to be the single greatest concentration of PGs on one team at any time in the history of the league.

Nash was a great cheerleader then.

Post #20 » by **rsavaj** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 4:05 am

Sun Scorched wrote:I remember that team with KJ, Kidd and Nash on it at the same time... that has to be the single greatest concentration of PGs on one team at any time in the history of the league.

Nash was a great cheerleader then.

He had some flashes of greatness too; KJ said that Nash would school him in practice, and MJ approached Nash after his first game against him to compliment him.