Next PG - not Bibby

tbhawksfan · Post #1 » by **tbhawksfan** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 11:51 am

Bibby is NOT going to help the Hawks get better. The rest of the team is still growing. If the Hawks have any aspiratins of becoming a champion, they will need better than Bibby.

He will never be able to stop anyone from dominating on the point. Those that argue that JJ and Bibby were considered the best backcourt combo in the league earlier in the season are failing to understand that that was only on O. On D Bibby is a very inadequate PG.

No reason to re-sign Bibby. I'd offer him 2@5M to back up our PG. He could be a good scoring second team PG on in a strong Def rotation.

Bibby's expiring 15M and / or the 6-7M to sign him next year could easily be better spent.

killbuckner · Post #2 » by **killbuckner** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 1:58 pm

I'm still predicting the next PG of the Hawks will be Iverson

D21 · Post #3 » by **D21** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:57 pm

tbhawksfan wrote:...
Bibby's expiring 15M and / or the 6-7M to sign him next year could easily be better spent.

But expiring 15M doesn't mean 15M to spend, unless the team is exactly at the cap (and renouncing to exceptions, and without pick...).
We can't let him expire, because it won't give lots of cap space, certainly not more than 7M we let go Zaza and Murray with Bibby, and only if Marvin is signed starting at about $7M, if he's not signed, his cap hold will eat the cap space.
The same team without these 3 players but with one at 7M$ (or two at 3.5M) have few chances to be better than the actual team.

So the only opportunity to be at the same level or higher is to keep our free agents or do sign-&-trade, and use the MLE if we have room under the tax threshold.

Or we can keep the other and sign Iverson with the MLE like KB said (even doing a sign-&-trade with Bibby for a big...).

That said, I find it hard to imagine what we can really do to improve this team this summer. It will depend on the Marvin situation, and other things.
That's why I would have made a deal in February if it was possible, something improving the team now and for next year, like getting Brad Miller for Zaza and Speedy and a future pick, or even Zaza+Speedy+Marvin for Miller+Salmons (but I don't like the fact that Salmons seems to need lots of balls and minutes to be effective). They both help improving CHI, with Miller coming of the bench, something that would have been perfect to fill the minutes behind Horford and Smith.
Getting one of both was an upgrade, and would be an upgrade for next season, maybe a better one than what we will be able to do this summer.

evildallas · Post #4 » by **evildallas** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 5:56 pm

Iverson, that's a depressing thought.

With the guideline of no Bibby, I'm still figuring on one of the following scenarios ranked in likelihood:
1) Kirk Hinrich (via trade involving Speedy)
2) Steve Blake (via sign and trade of Bibby)
3) Flip Murray (promoted to starter on the cheap, must acquire bench scoring replacement)
4) Ramon Sessions (via free agency or S&T)
5) Ty Lawson (via draft)

3-5 are all long shots because of certain factors like Woodson's reluctance to give up his bench scorer, the difficulty of gaining cap space to make a free agent signing, and the reluctance to play a rookie.

Again this is my attempt to predict what will happen, not what I would want to happen.

Hawkeyes · Post #5 » by **Hawkeyes** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:38 pm

Flynn or Lawson out of the draft could be options, but we are not a 4 seed right now without Bibby. He has struggled lately, but even Joe entered a slump and I'm sure nobody wants him gone. The problem with Bibby is his defense, and it does get annoying. How many times have guards just blew by him like they weren't even being guarded? Defense has never been his strong suit, but his offense has carried us in a lot of games with his 3 pt shooting. He could be the best option out there in the offseason, but if someone like Sessions or another option that is younger comes along then I'd be for it. The thought of Iverson would be sickening. I'd be very upset with the FO if we even considered him.

raleigh · Post #6 » by **raleigh** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 7:44 pm

killbuckner wrote:I'm still predicting the next PG of the Hawks will be Iverson

Do you think he'd outperform Flip on the Hawks next season, and if so, by how much? I ask because I expect Flip to be a little cheaper...

HoopsGuru25 · Post #7 » by **HoopsGuru25** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:18 pm

I like Hinrich,Ford,and Gordon as replacements if we can't re-sign Bibby.

I'm going to be pissed if Iverson is the starting pg next year.

killbuckner · Post #8 » by **killbuckner** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:38 pm

I'd expect Iverson to outperform Flip in Jersey sales, Ticket sales, and TV ratings which is why I think that he will be the PG of the Hawks next season. I don't think the owners will particularly care about whether its the best for the team on the court. And I do think that Iverson would absolutely own this town so I can't really blame them. Any money he makes more than Flip will be dwarfed by increased revenues for the team.

Rod700 · Post #9 » by **Rod700** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 9:00 pm

evildallas wrote:Iverson, that's a depressing thought.

With the guideline of no Bibby, I'm still figuring on one of the following scenarios ranked in likelihood:
1) Kirk Hinrich (via trade involving Speedy)
2) Steve Blake (via sign and trade of Bibby)
3) Flip Murray (promoted to starter on the cheap, must acquire bench scoring replacement)
4) Ramon Sessions (via free agency or S&T)
5) Ty Lawson (via draft)

3-5 are all long shots because of certain factors like Woodson's reluctance to give up his bench scorer, the difficulty of gaining cap space to make a free agent signing, and the reluctance to play a rookie.Again this is my attempt to predict what will happen, not what I would want to happen.

It's probably more productive to predict what will happen, but here's what my priorities would be and the order I would pursue them in, regardless of likelihood for success:

1. Kirk Hinrich
2. Steve Nash
3. A.I. (takes too many shots, but so does Bibby, and AI can penetrate) Not my favorite option, but he would be an improvement.
4. Resign Bibby if the price is right
5. Promote Flip if there is no other option and use the money saved to get a true center.

ATL DirtyBird · Post #10 » by **ATL DirtyBird** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 4:06 am

Hawkeyes wrote:Flynn or Lawson out of the draft could be options, but we are not a 4 seed right now without Bibby. He has struggled lately, but even Joe entered a slump and I'm sure nobody wants him gone. The problem with Bibby is his defense, and it does get annoying. How many times have guards just blew by him like they weren't even being guarded? Defense has never been his strong suit, but his offense has carried us in a lot of games with his 3 pt shooting. He could be the best option out there in the offseason, but if someone like Sessions or another option that is younger comes along then I'd be for it. The thought of Iverson would be sickening. I'd be very upset with the FO if we even considered him.

MR Flynn will be returning to Syracuse so rule that one out. Im not a big fan of Lawson, but hes solid.

ATL DirtyBird · Post #11 » by **ATL DirtyBird** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 4:09 am

Also dont yall think that the team will resign Bibby? I know we all know that hes not right for this team anymore and is starting to suck, but I dont think management will be able to let him walk.

shagadelic45 · Post #12 » by **shagadelic45** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 2:34 pm

Jose Calderon?

whodtthr · Post #13 » by **whodtthr** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 9:34 pm

What about Jarret Jack, he could be a cheaper replacement which would give more time to Acie also.

Post #14 » by **HMFFL** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 10:38 pm

whodtthr wrote:What about Jarret Jack, he could be a cheaper replacement which would give more time to Acie also.

Indiana would most likely match our offer. They basically look at him as a fixture for years to come as long as he continues to produce.

lethalweapon3 · Post #15 » by **lethalweapon3** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 6:17 pm

I say, lock up this guy for a few years. And about $27 mill.

~lw3

LL Cool Scott · Post #16 » by **LL Cool Scott** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 2:20 am

killbuckner wrote:I'd expect Iverson to outperform Flip in Jersey sales, Ticket sales, and TV ratings which is why I think that he will be the PG of the Hawks next season. I don't think the owners will particularly care about whether its the best for the team on the court. And I do think that Iverson would absolutely own this town so I can't really blame them. Any money he makes more than Flip will be dwarfed by increased revenues for the team.

All excellent points. This is a business, and this franchise has been hemorrhaging money the past few years. I would be pretty shocked if AI isn't our starting point next season.

TONEGULLY · Post #17 » by **TONEGULLY** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 2:45 am

A.I.?? We need a True point guard not another Shooting guard playing the PG position. That's whats Woody's problem now.
Instead of looking for a point guard who wants to dish first shoot second. As long as we have Flip and JJ we need a true point guard.
Flip is not a PG. He is a ball hog. Thats why AL was screaming on him today when he was wide open and Flip did not want to pass the ball.

tigerblood · Post #18 » by **tigerblood** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:10 pm

Would be nice to see Nash with JJ again.

evildallas · Post #19 » by **evildallas** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:02 pm

A lot of this thread has focused on Nash. Let me put a damper on that by saying that Nash isn't a free agent, he's just not guaranteed this year. It's a long shot that Phoenix decides to cut ties with him early considering the impact on ticket sales.

tbhawksfan · Post #20 » by **tbhawksfan** » Wed Apr 1, 2009 9:56 am

Remember when people wer saying that we had the best backcourt in the league. LOL. It was all about OFF. When Bibby and JJ hit their shots, the Hawks look real good. Without a PG that can break down, play D and dish, the Hawks look like the same inconsistant incohesive team as before Bibby.

Andre Miller sure lit us up last night.

Get a coach that will at least have an intelligent, coheasive plan (development), sign Miller, give Law a chance and improve with the addition of a quality C to improve the Horf/Smoove/zaza rotation