The RealGM Wizards Board Draft Thread 2008/2009

Post #1341 » by **Rafael122** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 4:43 pm

Marvin hasn't been that bad. He's been solid, but since he got taken early, people expect a lot more from him. He's averaging what...12 and 6 this year? It's a solid number.

Ji · Post #1342 » by Ji » Sun Mar 29, 2009 4:54 pm

not for the overall pick in the draft. Bust

go'stags · Post #1343 » by **go'stags** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 8:09 pm

I agree with Ruz. Lawson is going to be a very good player. His strength is what does it, as it allows him to finish with contact in traffic. he is also a very good passer and decison maker, good shooter and excellent penetrator.

The Wiz thrive with a fast paced attack, and Id say even moreso with Young Mcguire and McGee playing a lot. Lawson pushes the tempo like no other. Even if we get number one, you could draft Griffin and trade Blatche for another pick and take Lawson. That would be a very explosive, talented team.

AgentOvechkin08 · Post #1344 » by **AgentOvechkin08** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 11:43 pm

go'stags i dont think we need lawson. We are stacked at guard right now. If anything, i am trying to find out ways to grab another 1st to take a quality G/F. Packaging Blatche is a start with our high second rounder.

I really like T will, Derozan intrigues me, James Johnson and Aminu are really good prospects.

closg00 · Post #1345 » by **closg00** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 11:48 pm

Re Rubio

Doesn't anyone remember his play (18 & injured) vs the U.S squad? Rubio held his own vs the worlds best. Ricky & Lawson are going to solid PGs. Lawson sooner, but Rubio could be an allstar.

Post #1346 » by **nate33** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:07 am

It would be a total waste of a draft pick to draft Thabeet. He's a poor man's Brendan Haywood. I don't want to waste a lotto pick on a guy just based on a contingency plan that Haywood might bolt. I'd rather trade down and dump Stevenson so that we know we have the money to retain him. Haywood + #7 pick > Thabeet.

I agree with Ruz about Lawson. He's an underrated player and a sleeper pick to be an all-star caliber player someday. The idea that you need a 6-4 point guard is from a bygone era. Ever since the no-hand checking rules were implemented, backcourts are getting smaller and quicker. There are a number of successful players 6-1 or shorter: Chris Paul, Jameer Nelson, Nate Robinson, Mo Williams, D.J.Augustin, Mario Chalmers, Mike Bibby and Aaron Brooks to name a few.

Blake Griffin is a total monster. I wouldn't trade him for anybody, including Durant. If we draft Griffin, I'd look to trade Jamison for a quality guard younger than 30 and build for a window of opportunity 2-5 years down the road.

fishercob · Post #1347 » by **fishercob** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 1:44 am

nate33 wrote:It would be a total waste of a draft pick to draft Thabeet. He's a poor man's Brendan Haywood. I don't want to waste a lotto pick on a guy just based on a contingency plan that Haywood might bolt. I'd rather trade down and dump Stevenson so that we know we have the money to retain him. Haywood + #7 pick > Thabeet.

I basically agree from what I'm seen of Thabeet. The premise was if EG & Co. determine he's going to be a dominant defensive center and is the best player on the board by far. I'm just trying to play out as many different scenarios as possible, as it's still a ways until May 19th, and then until draft night.

I still have yet to come up with -- or see -- a compelling plan of what to do if we get the #3 pick. I'm counting on you, nate!

Post #1348 » by **nate33** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 2:02 am

At this point, I think the best move at #3 is to draft Thabeet and trade down. The two teams in the mid-lottery who have cap space are Minnesota and Toronto. Both teams lack a true center and would probably be willing to absorb Stevenson in order to trade up from the 6-8 range and get Thabeet (especially if we throw in $3M in cash to cover most of Stevenson's 2009/10 salary).

We'll have to see how things shake out after the measurements and workouts. You never know. Some guard (like Tyreke Evans, maybe) might just shoot up and emerge as a clear favorite at #3. That would at least make our decision easier.

mhd · Post #1349 » by **mhd** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 2:10 am

I think the clear cut top 2 are Griffin and Rubio. After that, who knows?

Post #1350 » by **Rafael122** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 2:58 am

nate33 wrote:At this point, I think the best move at #3 is to draft Thabeet and trade down. The two teams in the mid-lottery who have cap space are Minnesota and Toronto. Both teams lack a true center and would probably be willing to absorb Stevenson in order to trade up from the 6-8 range and get Thabeet (especially if we throw in $3M in cash to cover most of Stevenson's 2009/10 salary).

We'll have to see how things shake out after the measurements and workouts. You never know. Some guard (like Tyreke Evans, maybe) might just shoot up and emerge as a clear favorite at #3. That would at least make our decision easier.

Nate - Toronto is going to have a lot of cap space, nothing huge, but something in the range of $45 million to start the season off, assuming Bosh doesn't get traded. Wouldn't it be best if we could somehow package Stevenson and Songaila? It's not like this is going to put them close to luxury tax land, not even close. $8 million in salary plus a starting center? Then just hold onto James and Etan until the trade deadline and see what they could get? I'm sure those are going to be valuable trading chips for teams looking to get into the 2010 free agent sweepstakes.

Post #1351 » by **nate33** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 4:26 am

Rafael122 wrote:
nate33 wrote:At this point, I think the best move at #3 is to draft Thabeet and trade down. The two teams in the mid-lottery who have cap space are Minnesota and Toronto. Both teams lack a true center and would probably be willing to absorb Stevenson in order to trade up from the 6-8 range and get Thabeet (especially if we throw in $3M in cash to cover most of Stevenson's 2009/10 salary).

We'll have to see how things shake out after the measurements and workouts. You never know. Some guard (like Tyreke Evans, maybe) might just shoot up and emerge as a clear favorite at #3. That would at least make our decision easier.

Nate - Toronto is going to have a lot of cap space, nothing huge, but something in the range of $45 million to start the season off, assuming Bosh doesn't get traded. Wouldn't it be best if we could somehow package Stevenson and Songaila? It's not like this is going to put them close to luxury tax land, not even close. $8 million in salary plus a starting center? Then just hold onto James and Etan until the trade deadline and see what they could get? I'm sure those are going to be valuable trading chips for teams looking to get into the 2010 free agent sweepstakes.

Sure. I'd love to package both Stevenson and Songaila in a trade down scenario. I just don't think Toronto would pay that much. I also think EG really likes Songaila and doesn't view him as a guy that should be "dumped".

Also, it's possible that EG believes we'll be in fairly decent shape capwise just by dumping Stevenson. With Stevenson off the books, we'll have a payroll of $56.6M in 2010. Add in the salary of our 2009 pick and our 2010 pick and the payroll will be around $62M. If the luxtax stays relatively constant at $70M, we should have around $8M to resign Haywood. (That's a big "if" though. Hollinger suggests that the luxtax threshold is going to drop in the coming years.)

My biggest concern is that EG is focused solely on the short term. He may be thinking that the team simply can't afford to lose any "reliable vets" next year so he won't take any steps to eliminate the contracts of either Stevenson or Songaila. Instead, he'll just try to dump Etan or James. If that happens, we're going to be faced with a real salary crunch in 2010 and we'll probably end up losing one or both of Haywood and McGuire.

I sincerely hope that EG isn't that shortsighted, but everything we've heard from the organization points to them loving Songaila and Stevenson. The only guy they seem to have been shopping is Etan.

mhd · Post #1352 » by **mhd** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 4:32 am

Nate, I think you are forgetting the Blatche factor. If we draft a big, Blatche is the one to be moved. He's makes so little, that a pairing with Stevenson for a 2010 expiring makes very good sense for both sides.

Blatche+Stevenson for Cardinal+one of Minny's 1st rounders is a sample deal that makes sense.
Ditto with OKC and Earl Watson and one of their 1st rounders.

Post #1353 » by **nate33** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:08 pm

mhd wrote:Nate, I think you are forgetting the Blatche factor. If we draft a big, Blatche is the one to be moved. He's makes so little, that a pairing with Stevenson for a 2010 expiring makes very good sense for both sides.

Blatche+Stevenson for Cardinal+one of Minny's 1st rounders is a sample deal that makes sense.
Ditto with OKC and Earl Watson and one of their 1st rounders.

If we draft Griffin, then yeah, Blatche will probably be the first one moved. But if we pick 2nd or lower, I'd prefer to use the pick (in a tradedown scenario) as incentive to shed salary rather than Blatche.

Post #1354 » by **LyricalRico** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 3:49 pm

nate33 wrote:If we draft Griffin, then yeah, Blatche will probably be the first one moved. But if we pick 2nd or lower, I'd prefer to use the pick (in a tradedown scenario) as incentive to shed salary rather than Blatche.

Agreed. Maybe the rights to Thabeet along with Songaila+Stevenson+Pesh to Detroit for their #16? It solves our luxury tax problems for the next two years and we'd still have a chance to take a guy like Blair or Patterson for depth in the frontcourt.

jivelikenice · Post #1355 » by **jivelikenice** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 4:11 pm

You don't get a high pick often and you can't turn down the chance to draft a Tyreke Evans or at least the Rights to Rubio just for shedding salary.

Dump Blatche and Pech for 2nd rounders but don't just give away a chance at a franchise type player.....

Dat2U · Post #1356 » by **Dat2U** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 4:19 pm

nate33 wrote:
Rafael122 wrote:
My biggest concern is that EG is focused solely on the short term. He may be thinking that the team simply can't afford to lose any "reliable vets" next year so he won't take any steps to eliminate the contracts of either Stevenson or Songaila. Instead, he'll just try to dump Etan or James. If that happens, we're going to be faced with a real salary crunch in 2010 and we'll probably end up losing one or both of Haywood and McGuire.

I sincerely hope that EG isn't that shortsighted, but everything we've heard from the organization points to them loving Songaila and Stevenson. The only guy they seem to have been shopping is Etan.

Totally agree with this. I've said that James & Etan need to be treated as untouchables. I wouldn't trade those expirings for anything short of a star. Even then, I'd try to pass off Songaila & Stevenson instead. I'd be willing to simply buyout Etan & James just to have them off the roster this year, hopefully save a little cash on the buyout and take the risk away of having a new coach finding them on the bench and actually playing them.

I know some see value in Songaila but with Wood coming back and hopefully the continued development of McGee over the summer, there's simply going to be a log jam at the PF/C positions. Especially if we get Griffin or keep Blatche. Songaila's limitations and salary makes him very expendable.

Sadly, your dead on about EG's preference. I don't think DSong or DeShawn are even considerations in trade talks. EG's been solely focused on Etan & James and of course couldn't find any takers. Sounds like this offseason he may be willing to include Blatche and even Young in the mix. My worst fear is that he'll use our "young knuckleheads" to dump Etan & James. That would be really shortsighted.

Dat2U · Post #1357 » by **Dat2U** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 4:24 pm

Also, I don't see EG considering a trade down scenario. My guess is if we don't get Griffin or Rubio, EG will trade out of the draft altogether. It seems like the organization is still in a win now mode and isn't really keen on adding more young talent. In fact it appears that their willing to purge of some the young talent on the roster now. We'll likely see EG trade the pick along with some filler for a veteran. I'd say that's the most likely scenario.

Post #1358 » by **Rafael122** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:42 am

This team can't add more young talent. That just means more inexperienced and we'd turn out like the Blaxers and Bulls, waiting years for these guys to develop.

BTW, DaJuan Summers declared for the daft. He's in the process of hiring an agent.

Nick Calathes also declared, but has not hired an agent. Calathes reminds me a lot of Kirk Hinrich, only Calathes is a better all around player. I believe he averaged something like 16/6/5 at Florida this year. I question his defense though.

Ji · Post #1359 » by Ji » Tue Mar 31, 2009 1:17 am

is Griffen a franchise player? Here is a guy who could be a top 10 player in the league. We need to win this lottery.

Roy Williams said:

North Carolina coach Roy Williams was certainly impressed by Blake Griffin's play on Sunday.

"He's a load," Williams said. "Please don't make this to be a comparison -- [but] he is LeBron James-like. He's got such a package of strength, explosiveness, touch, power. You know, it's hard to match that. In person, when you're sitting on that bench, it even looks more awesome than it does when I'm watching it on TV."

Pollinator · Post #1360 » by **Pollinator** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 1:39 am

What the heck happened to Monroe and Hill? They both looked so good at Christmastime (the 1 or 2 games I saw them play), and for them to be this far out of our lotto pick conversation during March madness is really disappointing- and we badly needed someone at the 4 position to show himself to be a potential impact player, cause dang it, everyone here knows we ain't gonna get the #1 pick.

Is there any possibility they could still be as good as they seemed back in december?