Let's say Boston rebuilds

Celtsfan1980 · Post #1 » by **Celtsfan1980** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:13 pm

The question is, excluding the GOAT candidates(Jordan, Bird, Magic, Russell, Jabaar, Chamberlain), which player(s) from the past would you love to see in a Celtics uniform during the next rebuilding process? The Big O never led his team to a Championship appearance and I don't think Kobe will ever be in the argument(Lebron has potential though) so I'm only excluding those 6. A Championship contender generally has to have good contracts that go along with the bad. Rondo and Perkins are worth more than their contracts show, the Lakers have Fisher whom I feel is highly underpaid, and the Cavs have Lebron and Delonte whom I feel are both underpaid. You can put up a good team otherwise, but I feel the best chance of becoming a Championship contender is to get a young player or two where you can get 7-8 good seasons from a player for cheap. Therefore, I would prefer to see Boston rebuild after PGA retires. If they keep Rondo you'd have to assume they'll go to a fast break style offense so it's hard to go from a half court offense to a fast break offense over one season. You could put up a team for $40-50 million easily. Boston's failures had a lot to do with incompetent management. Ainge may not be the next Auerbach but I have a lot more confidence in him than I did in any of their recent GM's.

I feel character is important. To put this into perspective, Jordan, Lebron, and Kobe are three of the more hateable players in NBA history for different reasons. Jordan was unbelievable in the playoffs so just for that reason I would have loved to have seen him as a Celtic. I would never care for Lebron or Kobe to be on the team. I put abilities first but you have to be remarkable. Attitude comes second. There will always be people who will hate a player just because they're a Celtic, but I think most people who hate the current Celtics would not hate the team if Garnett didn't do a few of his antics. I also can't stand when players are hyped as much as Kobe and Lebron are. There are two players I have in mind. If the Celtics go to a fast break style offense, Hakeem Olajuwon would be my choice. Olajuwon and Russell are what I consider the two most exciting Centers of all time, so I would have loved watching him regularly. You need a shot-blocker and a rebounder who can start the fast break, and Olajuwon did start at the 4 with Sampson at the 5 so a Perkins/Olajuwon frontcourt combination would work I would think. If Boston continued to be a half-court offense like they are now, I'd choose Jerry West. He had some performances in the playoffs that rival Jordan's performances. I still feel the Lakers did a mediocre or maybe even sub-par job of building around West and Baylor, and therefore never won a Championship with those two in their prime. He was also very tough and seemed to be playing through injuries very, very frequently. I haven't heard of any stories of those two acting up, and the Rockets Championship teams are rarely acknowledged today, kind of like the 1970's Celtics teams. Neither player was hyped too much and both players were greats whom I would have loved watching regularly.

MyInsatiableOne · Post #2 » by **MyInsatiableOne** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:58 pm

I'll respond in more detail once I read the entire post more critically, but I did find one huge error...Oscar Robertson *did* win a title, with Milwaukee in 1971...

vct33 · Post #3 » by **vct33** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:07 pm

I take The Dream and it's really not close.

tombattor · Post #4 » by **tombattor** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:33 pm

MyInsatiableOne wrote:I'll respond in more detail once I read the entire post more critically, but I did find one huge error...Oscar Robertson *did* win a title, with Milwaukee in 1971...

Yup. It was with Kareem, but he did win one.

chakdaddy · Post #5 » by **chakdaddy** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:40 pm

I think the idea was that Kareem led the Bucks to that title; but I still think it's tough to leave Robertson out. I'd put him over Kareem overall since Russell and Chamberlain definitely have edges over Kareem at the center position whereas you could definitely argue Oscar as the greatest guard ever.

Interesting thing: at guard you have Jordan/Magic/Big O; center you have Russell/Chamberlain; but I don't think anyone can possibly dispute Bird as the greatest forward of all time. And also interestingly, no power forward really comes in the discussion of greatest of all time - because any PF that good would windup playing center, IMO.

Certainly LeBron could challenge Bird eventually for greatest forward eventually, which obviously would put him in the discussion for greatest ever. Kobe's a poor man's Jordan - in some ways he's an amplified version of Jordan - he has similar flaws to Jordan but magnified to the point that there's no way he's as good as MJ. He's MJ but a better shooter, but also more selfish. He doesn't belong in the discussion. Everyone says Kobe's the best closer in the league, but I don't think I've seen anyone MISS more clutch shots than him either. Jordan missed a lot of clutch shots too; that's what happens when you take a lot of clutch shots.

ddb · Post #6 » by **ddb** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:28 pm

Shaq is top pick. He's won championships and was the most dominate player in the world for over a decade. He would bring titles to Boston, sell tickets, and would be a marketing dream.

Tim Duncan would be my # 2. He's THEEEE best power forward in the history of the game and is still going strong. 4 titles, no issues, and does nothing but win.

The Dream would be my # 3. He won a couple titles when Jordan retired. Was dominate and one of the premier players of his generation.

bruno sundov · Post #7 » by **bruno sundov** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:54 pm

Certainly LeBron could challenge Bird eventually for greatest forward eventually, which obviously would put him in the discussion for greatest ever. Kobe's a poor man's Jordan - in some ways he's an amplified version of Jordan - he has similar flaws to Jordan but magnified to the point that there's no way he's as good as MJ. He's MJ but a better shooter, but also more selfish. He doesn't belong in the discussion. Everyone says Kobe's the best closer in the league, but I don't think I've seen anyone MISS more clutch shots than him either. Jordan missed a lot of clutch shots too; that's what happens when you take a lot of clutch shots.[/quote]

I saw something on ESPN this year, stating how KB24 has only made 25% of all potential game winning shots in the last 3 years. That isn't exactly great. Paul Pierce misses a ton of them also.

Athanacropolis · Post #8 » by **Athanacropolis** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 10:42 pm

I had to go with two of the most important positions: big man and point guard. So I picked Tim Duncan and Bob Cousy. I feel like those two in their primes would be a damn good nucleus to build around.

Celtsfan1980 · Post #9 » by **Celtsfan1980** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 10:54 pm

MyInsatiableOne wrote:I'll respond in more detail once I read the entire post more critically, but I did find one huge error...Oscar Robertson *did* win a title, with Milwaukee in 1971...

That's true, but Jabaar was clearly their leader. Robertson was getting older and wasn't in his prime by that point.

Celtsfan1980 · Post #10 » by **Celtsfan1980** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:00 pm

ddb wrote:Shaq is top pick. He's won championships and was the most dominate player in the world for over a decade. He would bring titles to Boston, sell tickets, and would be a marketing dream.

I found Shaq very boring to watch. He'd bring in money and Championships with the right team but watching him game after game isn't something I dream about. Without his size, I question how good of a player he would have been.

bballcool34 · Post #11 » by **bballcool34** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:50 pm

Celtsfan1980 wrote:I found Shaq very boring to watch. He'd bring in money and Championships with the right team but watching him game after game isn't something I dream about. Without his size, I question how good of a player he would have been.

What you should be questioning is how he had the speed he did on his post moves (on the baseline spin move for example) given his size. Either way- the points moot- might as well question how great any center would be.

Celtsfan1980 · Post #12 » by **Celtsfan1980** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:00 am

bballcool34 wrote:
Celtsfan1980 wrote:I found Shaq very boring to watch. He'd bring in money and Championships with the right team but watching him game after game isn't something I dream about. Without his size, I question how good of a player he would have been.

What you should be questioning is how he had the speed he did on his post moves (on the baseline spin move for example) given his size. Either way- the points moot- might as well question how great any center would be.

With every other great Center(with Chamberlain being one possible exception) I get the feeling that they practice with their game a lot and improve. I never felt that way with Shaq.

chakdaddy · Post #13 » by **chakdaddy** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 1:07 am

Duncan has had a great career, but a lot of great centers would have wound up "the greatest PF ever" if they played there. I don't think Duncan touches, say, Olajuwon.

Red2 · Post #14 » by **Red2** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 2:06 pm

why not make this a real question? Garnett and Allen are both about 33 and Pierce is 31. Garnett's injury is an indicator of things to come. Luckily Powe and Davis have dveloped really nicely and walker shows promise although none of those guys are KG caliber. IF we don't win a title this year I doubt very seriously that Danny will blow up this team. Rather I think he'll try to add a piece. I'd love to see a young energetic player like Noah on our bench and I'd also like to see us a shooter. It's possible that Giddens could fill that role and who knows, maybe Marbury sticks around . Marcus Camby would be a great fit for us but we don't have the pieces to get him. Anyhow, at what point in time do you consider trading Ray or KG or Pierce? I sort of feel that Danny is going to let them play out their contracts in Boston and I think they've earned their right to do that after winning number 17. We need to get lucky in the draft and perhaps package some players and picks to get a young stud to compliment the big 3. Just think what Dwayne Wade could do on this team and then you bring Ray off the bench.