TPFSports: Can Lakers Shed "soft" Tag, and Win Title?

[Dr IV]

This article was just passed along to me, JE Skeets has been highlighting TPFS' NBA work a lot lately.

http://www.talkingpointfreesports.com/a ... ionship%3f

They're last joint, shredding the **** teams in the NBA were straight comedy.... this is more poignant. Something I'm concerned with, as a hoops fan that want to watch kobe in the finals.

[magic1fan]

to be honest i don't think we are soft. i think we are getting bored. if you look at the games that were big games to us,we came out focused,and even in boston when we fell behind,kobe hit some big three's,and odom and gasol stepped up. in cleveland even though kobe didn't score alot,he played great defense,and odom and pau stepped up again. also remember this was without bynum. if they are focused and locked in then i think they will be fine. the hard thing is getting them to stay focused.

[Sedale Threatt]

How can we be getting bored if we are, or at least were, right in the thick of the battle for homecourt?

[vinnycorleone]

without Bynum we cannot win a ring.

our defensive lapses without Bynum are too great to over come. How many defensive breakdowns do we have a game where the opposition gets a uncontested layup?

With Bynum we never had that issue.

We don't need 20 pts a game from Andew. We need protection around the rim and rebounding.

If...big if...Bynum comes back I feel it's our championship to lose.

[magic1fan]

How can we be getting bored if we are, or at least were, right in the thick of the battle for homecourt?

hey that's just my observation. like i said the big games we seem to get up for. they probably also feel they can go into cleveland and win,so it isn't a big deal. not saying it's right but it does seem like what's happening to me.

[rand0m]

I wouldn't say without Drew we cannot win a ring. Even without him we beat BOS/CLE on the road. It won't be easy but it's possible. And I do agree with magic1fan to an extent. But I wouldn't say they are getting bored. They just don't seem to put in the same level/consistency of effort versus weaker teams throughout 48 minutes. You can clearly see it. However, this doesn't mean they are a great defensive team when they try. If anything, they are barely "good". But I think that's enough with the firepower they have.

[magic1fan]

I wouldn't say without Drew we cannot win a ring. Even without him we beat BOS/CLE on the road. It won't be easy but it's possible. And I do agree with magic1fan to an extent. But I wouldn't say they are getting bored. They just don't seem to put in the same level/consistency of effort versus weaker teams throughout 48 minutes. You can clearly see it. However, this doesn't mean they are a great defensive team when they try. If anything, they are barely "good". But I think that's enough with the firepower they have.

when we are focused i think we are better than barely good,especially when healthy. when the season started we were a great defensive team imo,then we started falling in love with our offense again.

[crazyeights]

How can we be getting bored if we are, or at least were, right in the thick of the battle for homecourt?

If you haven't noticed our players have been playing bored since after last 6 game road trip against Boston and Cleveland. (That's with lulls in between Christmas and that road trip...we only seem to get up for the big games.... such as, we're not going to see the Hawks in the finals this year.)

Also now I think they've come to realize we're not getting HCA. They look like they're just waiting for the playoffs to start. They've been looking like that for some time.

This is human nature...not defending it, but I don't think this group of young guys (who have been told by their coaches, their fans, the media and themselves that anything but a championship is a failure) can play with that edge all season...they just can't, not this group anyway. But remember the opening of the season? How these guys played? Yes, it was against lesser teams, but they were hungry. Starving. Then they realized they couldn't prove what they had to prove 78 games before the playoffs even start.

Hell, even Kobe hasn't been Kobe the past few weeks. I wouldn't even be surprised if we pull a Boston in the playoffs this year. They were dominant all year. Everyone said Boston out of the east, easily. Yet they went to game seven 3 times. Then they favored our Lakers....they said we've been peaking at the right time. Well no. We didn't. Because we didn't keep that edge. We got mentally beat.

Our guys were ready for the playoffs in pre-season. They want revenge. But they have to wait. It's going to come back. Put us in the grinder and we'll be alright. A first round against Dallas might be sort of a lull. Give us the Spurs and see this team wake up. Emerge.

Or at least this all seems to me...

[Sedale Threatt]

I just think boredom is a lame excuse, is all.

It smacks of supreme arrogance -- fans as much as players -- to think we can simply flip the switch back and forth from hungry to bored back to hungry. This team hasn't done anything. It doesn't deserve that right, and if they think they do they're in for another rude awakening in the playoffs.

This is a very, very good team -- a championship-caliber team -- but it's far from perfect, and our flaws have been exposed recently in terms of blowing these big leads and the no-show yesterday in Atlanta.

I think our recent issues have less to do with boredom than the facts that we're down a key starter, our bench is playing like crap and our best player is in an extended slump, and possibly worn down from playing 20 months straight without a break.

[magic1fan]

I just think boredom is a lame excuse, is all.

It smacks of supreme arrogance -- fans as much as players -- to think we can simply flip the switch back and forth from hungry to bored back to hungry. This team hasn't done anything. It doesn't deserve that right, and if they think they do they're in for another rude awakening in the playoffs.

This is a very, very good team -- a championship-caliber team -- but it's far from perfect, and our flaws have been exposed recently in terms of blowing these big leads and the no-show yesterday in Atlanta.

I think our recent issues have less to do with boredom than the facts that we're down a key starter, our bench is playing like crap and our best player is in an extended slump, and possibly worn down from playing 20 months straight without a break.

i don't think it's arrogance,i think it is a fair assesment.we just seem to be more focused when it is against a team we deem a threat. now you could be right,but we won't really know until the playoffs start. hopefully those leads won't vanish,and our defense will rise to the moment.

[crazyeights]

I just think boredom is a lame excuse, is all.

It smacks of supreme arrogance -- fans as much as players -- to think we can simply flip the switch back and forth from hungry to bored back to hungry. This team hasn't done anything. It doesn't deserve that right, and if they think they do they're in for another rude awakening in the playoffs.

This is a very, very good team -- a championship-caliber team -- but it's far from perfect, and our flaws have been exposed recently in terms of blowing these big leads and the no-show yesterday in Atlanta.

I think our recent issues have less to do with boredom than the facts that we're down a key starter, our bench is playing like crap and our best player is in an extended slump, and possibly worn down from playing 20 months straight without a break.

You mean to tell me that you are as excited when the Lakers play the Hawks as when they play the Celtics?

Or even if you're going to play an 8 year old kid rather than some star at the local JC?

It's human nature, and I think it's more wrong to pretend it doesn't exist. It's not an excuse. It's what I am actually witnessing when I watch these guys.

I've seen it with even the worst teams. The Clippers for example. If they've got a back to back and the second night is against the Celtics, Cavs, or Lakers...they play with considerably less amounts of effort the first night. It's just how it is.

My point was no team can play with that mental edge for 100+ games. Kobe, an amazing competitor, one of the best we've ever seen has been playing basketball for essentially two years straight. He can't keep that edge night in and night out. We shouldn't expect them to. It's too draining. So to just say it's an excuse, basically calling their being human inexcusable.

Though I guess we agree somewhat, on people just being worn down. I've just sensed the entire season that they weren't completely into each and every game for an actual tangible reason. Thought it since the first week of the season. But I guess maybe that's my own problem, trying to define what is indefinable.

Who knows, I could be completely full of it.

[Sedale Threatt]

I totally agree that it's impossible to get up for every single game on the schedule. There are going to be lulls in every season, suffered by every team. The Lakers are no different.

But the fatigue brought on by the grind of an 82-game season is an entirely different proposition than boredom, which to me implies a sense of apathy, that the Lakers are neither interested nor concerned with current events.

This makes absolutely no sense at this juncture considering we are -- or at least were -- fighting for overall homecourt advantage. That's a huge prize that Jackson and the rest of the team has been talking about since training camp, so I find it hard to imagine that all of a sudden we'd succumb to boredom.

As I said, I think it's far more likely that:

A. Our best player is mired in an extended slump, possibly brought on by fatigue.
B. The loss of a key starter is finally catching up to us.
C. Our bench is playing like crap.

All those factors are much more plausible to me than mere boredom, which makes it seem like they're a group of kids with nothing to do on the weekend rather than a team of professional athletes on the verge of the most important part of their season.

Fatigue I can buy. But boredom? Hell no.

[rand0m]

when we are focused i think we are better than barely good,especially when healthy. when the season started we were a great defensive team imo,then we started falling in love with our offense again.

Okay so maybe they are good when focused. But far from great. This is just not a team that will hold teams to 80-90 points a night consistently. Hell, under 95 is a stretch. The problem is that they were "great" for only a handful of early games. They were hungry coming out the preseason and the effort was there 100%. Also defensive schemes changed a bit which caught a couple teams off guard, that were perhaps not ready. I just want the effort and focus to be there during the postseason. No more layup and 3 point shooting drills during games please!

[magic1fan]

when we are focused i think we are better than barely good,especially when healthy. when the season started we were a great defensive team imo,then we started falling in love with our offense again.

Okay so maybe they are good when focused. But far from great. This is just not a team that will hold teams to 80-90 points a night consistently. Hell, under 95 is a stretch. The problem is that they were "great" for only a handful of early games. They were hungry coming out the preseason and the effort was there 100%. Also defensive schemes changed a bit which caught a couple teams off guard, that were perhaps not ready. I just want the effort and focus to be there during the postseason. No more layup and 3 point shooting drills during games please!

i completely agree about the three point and layup drills...

[crazyeights]

All those factors are much more plausible to me than mere boredom, which makes it seem like they're a group of kids with nothing to do on the weekend rather than a team of professional athletes on the verge of the most important part of their season.

Fatigue I can buy. But boredom? Hell no.

Nothing gets me more than professional. Really. These guys are grown up kids. Every single one of them. Have you ever heard Jordan Farmar or Luke speak, especially when these guys aren't being interviewed at half-time, but just caught on camera? They're idiotic. All they do is play videogames. You ask Andrew Bynum what he likes to do and he says he likes cars. These are still kids.

They play for a living. I don't expect them to be geniuses. But even so, if one of these guys, be it Jordan, Ariza...any of our young guys, they can hardly respond to a question without using the word "execute" repeatedly, (or as Jordan so often does...sound arrogant).

And who else is supposed to come off the bench and illustrate what the team is really about? Jordan Farmar is the Los Angeles Lakers. If you don't think the franchise as a whole is arrogant then I don't know if we're talking about the same team.

Phil is arrogant.

Our team is mostly young, filled with guys who have known only "ball through hoop" their entire lives. I don't expect them to be model human beings, I expect them to be sort of lame. And I expect them to be lackadaisical at times, arrogant though try to be PC/humble, and win a championship this summer.

And you're right. They are on the verge of an important part of their season. It's end. The Lakers, even as of yesterday, probably aren't that confident they're going to catch Cleveland. PJ has been preaching "first to 60 wins." Well what happened right before our tip-off? Cleveland got 60. And no matter what, these guys weren't going to get there first.

So yeah, they had a let down yesterday. Yeah that means their chances of best overall record are smashed. But firstly, they have the tire-breaker between them and Boston (who they want HCA for). And secondly, they know they have HCA in the west....so I don't imagine they are going to kill themselves the rest of the season when essentially they just have to be well and rested for the playoffs.

[The Skyhook]

If we don't win a championship this year we're all going to be disappointed as fans. What is going to disappoint us the most is not that we didn't win championship but the fact that these guys didn't come out hungry for revenge all season long. Before the season started I'm sure most of the guys on this team said they were hungry for revenge. I have only seen that hunger for the first few games of the season, on Christmas day, and against Cleveland and Boston back to back road games. We know that these guys are capable of playing the way a championship favorite does.

Lebron and the Cavs played with that hunger every game this season. I don't know if the Lakers think that the Celtics aren't going to the finals because the Cavs will beat them. Maybe the Lakers would be more motivated if Boston was considered the favorites to come out of the east. but right now it sure looks like the Cavs will be the ones to come out of the east and our Lakers seem unmotivated as hell. I hope that when the playoffs come we get our crap together and play our hearts out until we are named champions.

Kobe needs long rest. A trip to the finals, the Olympics, and this season have all seemed to take a toll on him. Keep in mind the same is with Gasol. Him and Kobe went just as far last season, in the olympics and this season. Our bench isn't shooting as well as it did last year and that energy we had last year is gone. Bynum's abscence is also hurting us because the rest of the guys have to play more minutes. Just imagine if we put extra effort in all season long. Our main guys could of had more rest if we blew teams out and the bench guys could of had more play time (possibly gaining some more experience.)

It sucks to know that at the start of the season we looked unbeatable and now we are in this position.

[kobeaki]

I totally agree that it's impossible to get up for every single game on the schedule. There are going to be lulls in every season, suffered by every team. The Lakers are no different.

But the fatigue brought on by the grind of an 82-game season is an entirely different proposition than boredom, which to me implies a sense of apathy, that the Lakers are neither interested nor concerned with current events.

This makes absolutely no sense at this juncture considering we are -- or at least were -- fighting for overall homecourt advantage. That's a huge prize that Jackson and the rest of the team has been talking about since training camp, so I find it hard to imagine that all of a sudden we'd succumb to boredom.

As I said, I think it's far more likely that:

A. Our best player is mired in an extended slump, possibly brought on by fatigue.
B. The loss of a key starter is finally catching up to us.
C. Our bench is playing like crap.

All those factors are much more plausible to me than mere boredom, which makes it seem like they're a group of kids with nothing to do on the weekend rather than a team of professional athletes on the verge of the most important part of their season.

Fatigue I can buy. But boredom? Hell no.

to a degree, i disagree, this has been part of the psyche of this org, since phil/shaq /kobe circa 99-2000...

i dont know but they have played this way alot, and you mentioned arrogance, well duh this squad is arrogant...how else would you reconcile their behavior, especially considering the talent they all posess...

[Joe Kleazy]

I agree with alot of what has been said in this thread but I feel like some things are being overlooked. We will have won 60+ games by the end of the season, through our own usual adverisities. We brought back the same team and still won the games we needed to while being the top road team in the league. Last year it was said that we only were as good as we were because of the number of home games we had to start the season but we have been able to show that we can be just as successful on the road this year which shows some growth.

We also have to remember that as far as our race with Cleveland is concerned.....they are a better team than they were last year so added with the fact that they play weaker teams more times a season than we do there was always a possibilty that a homecourt race would have taken a "Perfect Season" on our part due to the amount of times we play stronger competition during the season. This could have happened with Boston or Cleveland as far as that is concerned seeing as though they only play West powerhouses twice which they are just as if not more talented than and their own conference strong teams 3-4 times which only consist of Boston, Cleveland, and Orlando. Depending on which one you want to use as an example they only play 8 games against the other top east teams and then the few against the west which leaves the majority of their games agaist the bottom feeding east ( was, nj, ny ) and the rest against the west scrubs ( sac, mem, okc ).



I know that if we remember how hard it was to watch last years finals it has to be that much harder for the ones on the court that were embarassed. I have hope that the coaches will drum up some type of video to motivate these guys again showing them over and over what they dont want to experience again in this postseason. Phil is perfect for that kind of sh**.

I also belive kobe is worn down but has saved something for the playoffs just based off of the improvements that we have made as a team. How long has it been since kobe hasn't had to shoulder the bulk of the offense the whole season and playoffs just to win games. I can't remember at all so even thoug he has had a lack of rest for the last two seasons I think that he had to lean more on his team just to be ready for the playoffs. There was never any doubt that we would make the postseason so it was always just important to be ready after all of the energy spent in the olympics and last year.


As unfortunat as it may be this team does play to the level of competition during the season and we did fine up until Boston last year. This may not be the most effecient way of doing things but has worked up until now. Come April we will see more effort and hopefully bynum comes in excited for his first postseason and can do what we NEED him to do which is anchor the defense while the rest of the teams takes notice that our downfall was having EVERY PLAYER HOLD THEMSELVES ACCOUNTABLE ON DEFENSE EVERY MINUTE OF EVERY GAME. This was our only reason for not coming into this postseason as defending champions.