Draft Scenario

Sever82 · Post #1 » by **Sever82** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 6:26 pm

Hey guys i was curious to know what Twolves fans would think of this. Lets say the wolves get the 1st pick in the draft and have the rights to Griffin. Do you guys feel the Twolves would draft Griffin eventhough they already have Jefferson and Love? As a bulls fan people keep talking about how Minnesota is interested in hinrich or how the bulls are interested in Bosh or Amare. As Wolves fans how do you think Minnesota would react to a trade of Hinrich+Deng+ our 09' first round picks for the rights to Griffin and expiring contracts to match salaries.

john2jer · Post #2 » by **john2jer** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 6:36 pm

Wolves could do better.

Mattya · Post #3 » by **Mattya** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 6:38 pm

For me the answer is a definate no.

Blake Griffin + Exprirings(Pretty much the only contracts that could make that deal work) is worth a lot more than an Underachieving Deng and Hinrich, who are also not on good contracts. Adding the 1st doesn't help that much since we already have 4 total, including our own.

deeney0 · Post #4 » by **deeney0** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 6:40 pm

I'd still be for trading one of those three (not for that package though), but there have been some awfully compelling arguments made in recent days on this board to the merits of keeping all three.

Post #5 » by **revprodeji** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 6:40 pm

The issue is that Hinrich and Deng both have neutral, if not negative value with their contracts. Talent is nice and it is in two positions we need help on, but Deng has fallen off and Hinrich is no where near the value needed.

Honestly, if the bulls wanted Griffin it would cost rose. We would need to add something, but that is the only real bargaining chip.

big3_8_19_21 · Post #6 » by **big3_8_19_21** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 6:41 pm

I would definitely not add in expirings to Griffin.

Krapinsky · Post #7 » by **Krapinsky** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 6:42 pm

No. For Griffin it would take Rose.

Sever82 · Post #8 » by **Sever82** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 6:47 pm

Kind of figured and the bulls wouldn't give up Rose since his value would probably worth more than Griffins. Just thought i'd ask. It will be interesting to see what the wolves would do if they received the 1st pick, my guess would be they would draft Griffin then trade him to whatever team drafted Rubio. The only thing that sucks for the Wolves is that the franchise doesn't exactly attract free agents. So anything they pick up would have to be by trade or by the draft.

Krapinsky · Post #9 » by **Krapinsky** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 6:51 pm

It makes more sense to trade Love, or to just have Love come off the bench for a year. I don't buy that a team should trade a greater talent just because they've invested a year in an inferior talent.

john2jer · Post #10 » by **john2jer** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 7:06 pm

Sever82 wrote:The only thing that sucks for the Wolves is that the franchise doesn't exactly attract free agents. So anything they pick up would have to be by trade or by the draft.

These kind of thoughts annoy me. First off they're uninformed. Please find a time in Wolves history that they actually had cap space to attract a free agent. It's been over 12 years since we've had cap space to attract anything more than a MLE guy. Second, they're based on the thinking, "The Wolves suck, so they should give up their good stuff for crap because it's cold there." That's just (Please Use More Appropriate Word). End of the day, guys go where the money is.

shrink · Post #11 » by **shrink** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 7:52 pm

I would not give expirings for Hinrich and I would not give expirings for the injured and declining Deng on that extra long deal.

I would consider the offer of Hinrich + Deng + #10 pick for expirings. That's probably reckless enough. I would not include our pick at all, especially not at #1.

Finally, be careful on assuming the Wolves want Hinrich. The article you read was not from the front office, but a sportwriter specualting that maybe the Wolves would do some trades this summer, and if so, maybe they'd revisit Hinrich. It was only a month ago when they refused to offer expirings for the guy, and now they have nothing but expirings and positively valued assets.

Sever82 · Post #12 » by **Sever82** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:16 pm

john2jer wrote:
Sever82 wrote:The only thing that sucks for the Wolves is that the franchise doesn't exactly attract free agents. So anything they pick up would have to be by trade or by the draft.

These kind of thoughts annoy me. First off they're uninformed. Please find a time in Wolves history that they actually had cap space to attract a free agent. It's been over 12 years since we've had cap space to attract anything more than a MLE guy. Second, they're based on the thinking, "The Wolves suck, so they should give up their good stuff for crap because it's cold there." That's just (Please Use More Appropriate Word). End of the day, guys go where the money is.

Name me a Free Agent signing worth noting that the TWolves had. Its not that Wolves suck or anything like that because i honestly think the wolves have some young pieces, its just that Minnesota isn't exactly a big city to attract a free like Wade or Bosh that would want to be in a big name city. I mean look at Lebron who is thinking about leaving Cleveland despite the fact that they're in a better winning situation than New York and despite the fact that he's from there.

Devilzsidewalk · Post #13 » by **Devilzsidewalk** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:21 pm

Sever82 wrote:Name me a Free Agent signing worth noting that the TWolves had.

thats easy, the original Rhino, Gary Trent.

I remember one time Flip threwout a Gary Trent/Reggie Slater/ and I can't remember if the 3rd guy was Big O Miller or Marc Jackson/ frontline for a few minutes.

I forgot how happy Flip made me. Lets bring him back!

Sever82 · Post #14 » by **Sever82** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:27 pm

shrink wrote:I would not give expirings for Hinrich and I would not give expirings for the injured and declining Deng on that extra long deal.

I would consider the offer of Hinrich + Deng + #10 pick for expirings. That's probably reckless enough. I would not include our pick at all, especially not at #1.

Finally, be careful on assuming the Wolves want Hinrich. The article you read was not from the front office, but a sportwriter specualting that maybe the Wolves would do some trades this summer, and if so, maybe they'd revisit Hinrich. It was only a month ago when they refused to offer expirings for the guy, and now they have nothing but expirings and positively valued assets.

The Wolves did want hinrich and came close to trading for him but the bulls pulled out because they felt it would be better for them to trade him in the offseason. It wasn't the Wolves that pulled out but instead it was the Bulls that did, dont try to mix stories like that to make it sound as if Minny had the upper hand.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/s ... tch-090224

"The Bulls flirted with sending Hinrich to the Timberwolves before the trade deadline, but they didn't like what they were offered in return. The current thinking is that Hinrich can rebuild some of his trade value during the remainder of the season and the Bulls can try again this summer.

They'd like expiring contracts and at least one asset (a pick or a young player) in return. But at the end of the day, I think they'd settle for the cap relief. If they can get Hinrich off the books, they could make a run at Chris Bosh in the summer of 2010."

And yes even Espn and Chicago Writers confirmed that (Chad Ford, Sam Smith, KC Johnson, Stephen A Smith). You're acting as if Deng is old and washed up, the guy is 24yrs old and still has potential. I would agree that his value right now is below his contract but thats because of the nagging injuries he has had, so its not to say that if he comes back next season healthy, he wont be worth his contract.

hinrich+Deng+Picks for your expiring contracts? Are you serious, thats the kind of deal a franchise in an economic unstable situation would do. If anything i can see Minnesota trying to dump Jefferson before his contract is up. The Bulls are well financially ranking #2 in att last year and minnesota ranking 26th. Even if Minny had the cap space they wouldn't spend it on FAs because they wouldn't be able to afford it.

Sever82 · Post #15 » by **Sever82** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:28 pm

Devilzsidewalk wrote:
Sever82 wrote:Name me a Free Agent signing worth noting that the TWolves had.

thats easy, the original Rhino, Gary Trent.

I remember one time Flip threwout a Gary Trent/Reggie Slater/ and I can't remember if the 3rd guy was Big O Miller or Marc Jackson/ frontline for a few minutes.

I forgot how happy Flip made me. Lets bring him back!

LOL

john2jer · Post #16 » by **john2jer** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:50 pm

Sever82 wrote:
john2jer wrote:
Sever82 wrote:The only thing that sucks for the Wolves is that the franchise doesn't exactly attract free agents. So anything they pick up would have to be by trade or by the draft.

These kind of thoughts annoy me. First off they're uninformed. Please find a time in Wolves history that they actually had cap space to attract a free agent. It's been over 12 years since we've had cap space to attract anything more than a MLE guy. Second, they're based on the thinking, "The Wolves suck, so they should give up their good stuff for crap because it's cold there." That's just (Please Use More Appropriate Word). End of the day, guys go where the money is.

Name me a Free Agent signing worth noting that the TWolves had. Its not that Wolves suck or anything like that because i honestly think the wolves have some young pieces, its just that Minnesota isn't exactly a big city to attract a free like Wade or Bosh that would want to be in a big name city. I mean look at Lebron who is thinking about leaving Cleveland despite the fact that they're in a better winning situation than New York and despite the fact that he's from there.

Seriously? If a team never has cap space, they can't sign a big name free agent. That's just common sense. So again, when was the last time the Wolves had more than the MLE to offer a free agent? It's been at least 10 years.

shrink · Post #17 » by **shrink** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:20 pm

Sever82 wrote:
shrink wrote:I would not give expirings for Hinrich and I would not give expirings for the injured and declining Deng on that extra long deal.

I would consider the offer of Hinrich + Deng + #10 pick for expirings. That's probably reckless enough. I would not include our pick at all, especially not at #1.

Finally, be careful on assuming the Wolves want Hinrich. The article you read was not from the front office, but a sportwriter specualting that maybe the Wolves would do some trades this summer, and if so, maybe they'd revisit Hinrich. It was only a month ago when they refused to offer expirings for the guy, and now they have nothing but expirings and positively valued assets.

The Wolves did want hinrich and came close to trading for him but the bulls pulled out because they felt it would be better for them to trade him in the offseason. It wasn't the Wolves that pulled out but instead it was the Bulls that did, dont try to mix stories like that to make it sound as if Minny had the upper hand.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/s ... tch-090224

"The Bulls flirted with sending Hinrich to the Timberwolves before the trade deadline, but they didn't like what they were offered in return. The current thinking is that Hinrich can rebuild some of his trade value during the remainder of the season and the Bulls can try again this summer.

They'd like expiring contracts and at least one asset (a pick or a young player) in return. But at the end of the day, I think they'd settle for the cap relief. If they can get Hinrich off the books, they could make a run at Chris Bosh in the summer of 2010.".

What a silly position. The Bulls pulled out because the Wolves (and other teams) were unwilling to offer enough. If you re-read your own post, the Bulls didn't like WHAT THE WOLVES WERE WILLING TO OFFER. And several other sources have said the Wolves were unwilling to offer expirings, which even Ford says they'd probably be willing to settle for (to get Bosh) if Hinrich can raise his trade value.

You maintain the view that Hinrich is worth more than expirings, and the evidence says that this isn't true.

shrink · Post #18 » by **shrink** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:25 pm

Sever82 wrote: hinrich+Deng+Picks for your expiring contracts? Are you serious, thats the kind of deal a franchise in an economic unstable situation would do. If anything i can see Minnesota trying to dump Jefferson before his contract is up. The Bulls are well financially ranking #2 in att last year and minnesota ranking 26th. Even if Minny had the cap space they wouldn't spend it on FAs because they wouldn't be able to afford it.

LOL. Before you come to another team's board and say that they're going to trade Jefferson for cap relief, you ought to educate yourself a bit. Comparing MIN and CHI, MIN is the one with the billionaire in the declining economy, not CHI, and MIN has an owner willing to go over the lux, which again, CHI does not. Moreover, it was CHI, not MIN, that was desperately trying to shed salary at the trade deadline to slip under the lux. MIN has a roster full of excellent contracts right now (Jefferson under market, Telfair under market, and expirings) .. another claim that CHI fans can't make.

shrink · Post #19 » by **shrink** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:01 pm

Regarding free agency -- I guess we'll just have to see. I don't remember if the Wolves have been under the salary cap since 1995, so at best, we're comparing MLE's. We did take an extra year on Mike James to get him to come, but every team can offer the MLE. I think the big deals in free agency come from cap space, and we don't know yet whether the size of the deal overwhelms the market size.

Sever82 · Post #20 » by **Sever82** » Thu Apr 2, 2009 8:37 pm

shrink wrote:
Sever82 wrote: hinrich+Deng+Picks for your expiring contracts? Are you serious, thats the kind of deal a franchise in an economic unstable situation would do. If anything i can see Minnesota trying to dump Jefferson before his contract is up. The Bulls are well financially ranking #2 in att last year and minnesota ranking 26th. Even if Minny had the cap space they wouldn't spend it on FAs because they wouldn't be able to afford it.

LOL. Before you come to another team's board and say that they're going to trade Jefferson for cap relief, you ought to educate yourself a bit. Comparing MIN and CHI, MIN is the one with the billionaire in the declining economy, not CHI, and MIN has an owner willing to go over the lux, which again, CHI does not. Moreover, it was CHI, not MIN, that was desperately trying to shed salary at the trade deadline to slip under the lux. MIN has a roster full of excellent contracts right now (Jefferson under market, Telfair under market, and expirings) .. another claim that CHI fans can't make.

You're kidding right, the bulls are one of the top profitable franchises in the league and our owner did not pull trade to be under the salary cap. Reinsdorf has said he'll pay the luxury tax as long as we sign a player that would put us in contention.

A question for you though, do you honestly think the TWolves are a profiting franchise? Do you honestly think your owner will continue to pay into the Wolves if each year he loses money?