Great Players who we let get away

Red2 · Post #1 » by **Red2** » Sat Apr 4, 2009 2:11 pm

no games for 5 days so how about a discussion on players that the Celts had and traded away or players they passed on in the draft that they could have had. I'll start with some easy ones from recent history. The most obvious one is Chauncey Billups for kenny Anderson. Ricky Pitino in his desire to win now traded the number 3 pick in the draft after only a few months in Boston . We all now how that turned out. Billups went on to be the mvp of the finals and carried detroit to the post season for several years before they stupidly traded him away. Kenny Anderson? He wasn't horrible but the thing he'll be remembered most for as a Celtic is his crying to the press during the lockout season how he couldn't afford to take care of his fleet of expensive cars. All in all this ranks up there as one of the worst trades the Celts ever made and solidifies Pitino's legend as perhaps the most damaging coach this franchise ever had ( ML Carr and Jim O'Brien are in the running for that as well). In the same draft as Billups ( who was a good pick so give pitino props there) we took Ron Mercer with the 6th pick. ( You may recall this was the Duncan draft and like the Durant draft we were supposed to get the number one pick but we didn't). Tracey McGrady was taken 2 picks later by Isiah and the Raptors. How good a backcourt would Billups and McGrady have been? Pitino also let Rick Fox and David Wesley go and had Ben Wallace in camp and let him go. we kept Dwayne Schintzius instead. Pitino also brought in Bruce Bowen from Miami ( actually Chris wallace did) which was a great move but then we let him go the following year or so.

BRUNiNHO91 · Post #2 » by **BRUNiNHO91** » Sat Apr 4, 2009 2:39 pm

Joe Johnson...=[

celtics543 · Post #3 » by **celtics543** » Sat Apr 4, 2009 2:52 pm

I'd just like to point out that Chauncey was a bust for years after we traded him, it was only when he got to Detroit that he really started being great. It's not like we traded him and he blew up into a finals MVP and perennial all star.

As for Jim O'Brien being in your running for worst coach in the franchise history, I guess I disagree with you. He took a team with Paul Pierce, Antoine Walker, and not much else to a game six in the ECF. Coming after Pitino and having pretty much the same team, he did a great job. He may not have played rookies enough and probably relied on the three far too much, but he still was successful while he was in Boston.

The Joe Johnson trade was painful when it happened. Tony Delk and Rodney Rogers were helpful, but even then you knew it was a trade that wasn't going to be good in the long run. Really that whole year was painful. The draft was terrible and then the C's traded the only good player they got.

But really, does it matter how many potentially great players we let get away? We won the title last year, so really it all worked out for the C's in the end.

BRUNiNHO91 · Post #4 » by **BRUNiNHO91** » Sat Apr 4, 2009 2:59 pm

It worked out in the end, but trading Joe Johnson for Tony Delk and Rodney Rogers was just stupid..he wasn't all that great when he was here but we traded him away like it was nothing...ughhhh... :nonono:

kidr1211 · Post #5 » by **kidr1211** » Sat Apr 4, 2009 3:05 pm

JOE JOHNSON

BillessuR6 · Post #6 » by **BillessuR6** » Sat Apr 4, 2009 3:46 pm

We all know the Johnson trade was made due to financial reasons. But the stupid thing was that PHO actually wanted Kedrick Brown and we insisted on JJ... :roll:

Celts09 · Post #7 » by **Celts09** » Sat Apr 4, 2009 4:04 pm

thebirdman wrote:We all know the Johnson trade was made due to financial reasons. But the stupid thing was that PHO actually wanted Kedrick Brown and we insisted on JJ...

joneb · Post #8 » by **joneb** » Sat Apr 4, 2009 4:12 pm

Big Al Jefferson says hello!

If we're talking about great players, then I'm not sure these two qualify, but I think both Ryan Gomes and Delonte West are going to have long, fruitful NBA careers.

I don't regret any of the recent moves we've made since we got to hang # 17 in the rafters, but I can't help but wonder what our team would look like if we had stuck diligently to the youth campaign instead of trading for established vets.

C- Perkins
PF- Jefferson
SF- Pierce
SG- Joe Johnson
PG- Billups

And then the depth would come in waves-

Powe, Baby and Ryan Gomes would be the bigs off the bench.
And Rudy Gay playing the wing off the bench. (Taken at #5 in lieu of R. Allen trade)
Delonte, TA and Rondo at the guards.

I know it's just playing with hypotheticals, but it would have been interesting to see a unit like the above one coming together. Again, I'm not second guessing Danny. Although I can't say the same for Rick Pitino and Chris Wallace.

chakdaddy · Post #9 » by **chakdaddy** » Sat Apr 4, 2009 4:23 pm

How could the Joe Johnson trade have been about money? It was about shortsightedly wanting veterans for the playoffs. I liked Delk though.

We came out better than Toronto did on the Billups trade. Kenny Anderson really stabilized the PG and was an underrated component of our playoff runs - it all fell apart after he was traded for Vin Baker.

BRUNiNHO91 · Post #10 » by **BRUNiNHO91** » Sat Apr 4, 2009 4:36 pm

Celts09 wrote:
thebirdman wrote:We all know the Johnson trade was made due to financial reasons. But the stupid thing was that PHO actually wanted Kedrick Brown and we insisted on JJ...

Well...I don't remember details of the trade...but is this really true?? OMG...ughhhhh... :nonono:

Post #11 » by **canman1971** » Sat Apr 4, 2009 4:41 pm

BRUNiNHO91 wrote:
Celts09 wrote:
thebirdman wrote:We all know the Johnson trade was made due to financial reasons. But the stupid thing was that PHO actually wanted Kedrick Brown and we insisted on JJ...

Well...I don't remember details of the trade...but is this really true?? OMG...ughhhhh...

Yes, Jim O'Brien wanted to keep Brown I believe. Man, talk about an all time blunder.

BRUNiNHO91 · Post #12 » by **BRUNiNHO91** » Sat Apr 4, 2009 4:43 pm

joneb wrote:Big Al Jefferson says hello!

If we're talking about great players, then I'm not sure these two qualify, but I think both Ryan Gomes and Delonte West are going to have long, fruitful NBA careers.

I don't regret any of the recent moves we've made since we got to hang # 17 in the rafters, but I can't help but wonder what our team would look like if we had stuck diligently to the youth campaign instead of trading for established vets.

C- Perkins
PF- Jefferson
SF- Pierce
SG- Joe Johnson
PG- Billups

And then the depth would come in waves-

Powe, Baby and Ryan Gomes would be the bigs off the bench.
And Rudy Gay playing the wing off the bench. (Taken at #5 in lieu of R. Allen trade)
Delonte, TA and Rondo at the guards.

I know it's just playing with hypotheticals, but it would have been interesting to see a unit like the above one coming together. Again, I'm not second guessing Danny. Although I can't say the same for Rick Pitino and Chris Wallace.

Yuhp...I think about this sometimes too. We would not be better than what we currently are that's for sure. BUT we would have a wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy longer window to try and get something going. And there is one problem. I don't know how well Joe Johnson would have developed playing with Pierce...he would always play under PP's shadow so I don't think he would be as good as he is right now. He only broke loose when he became the center of the offensive attention in ATL...before that he was just a bench player overshawdowed by other stars...had we kept JJ, Paul more likely than not would have been traded a couple years back....IMO that is..

BRUNiNHO91 · Post #13 » by **BRUNiNHO91** » Sat Apr 4, 2009 4:55 pm

canman1971 wrote:
Yes, Jim O'Brien wanted to keep Brown I believe. Man, talk about an all time blunder.

What a dummy...But you can't really blame him if you look at it..Kedrick Brown came in here with a freak potential to turn out a great player..the guy had everything going for him, physically wise to be a all-star but turned out to be a bust,(kind of like Darko and Kwame..lol)... but at the time I think he was more valuable then JJ...that's probably why Phoenix wanted Brown over JJ in the first place...but still...what a horrible trade... :-?

greenbeans · Post #14 » by **greenbeans** » Sat Apr 4, 2009 4:56 pm

An always popular what if was the 04 draft, we took Delonte and TA in the 2 spots ahead of Kevin Martin. Martin would have been great with that bizarre Pierce/Payton/Davis/Walker team in those playoffs.
Another was the rumored trade of Pierce for the 3rd pick in the 05 draft, which Danny would have taken Chris Paul with. A Big Al/CP3 tandem would have been quite nice.

BillessuR6 · Post #15 » by **BillessuR6** » Sat Apr 4, 2009 4:59 pm

chakdaddy wrote:How could the Joe Johnson trade have been about money? It was about shortsightedly wanting veterans for the playoffs.

And the reason for that was to raise the value of the franchise before it was sold...

BRUNiNHO91 · Post #16 » by **BRUNiNHO91** » Sat Apr 4, 2009 5:04 pm

greenbeans wrote:An always popular what if was the 04 draft, we took Delonte and TA in the 2 spots ahead of Kevin Martin. Martin would have been great with that bizarre Pierce/Payton/Davis/Walker team in those playoffs.
Another was the rumored trade of Pierce for the 3rd pick in the 05 draft, which Danny would have taken Chris Paul with. A Big Al/CP3 tandem would have been quite nice.

WOW..I love Pierce...he is my all time favorite player and all...but there are 2 players in the league that I would trade Pierce for without even blinking, and they would be LeBron and Chris Paul...Chris is just AMAZING! Chris Paul, Joe Johnson, Jeff Green, Big Baby, K.Perkins with a bench of Rondo, Delonte West, Tony Allen, Ryan Gomes, Leon Powe(last years pick)...ehhh..not too bad of a young team huh?? :lol:

Zin5 · Post #17 » by **Zin5** » Sat Apr 4, 2009 5:05 pm

Of course we could have had Brandon Roy or Rudy Gay in 2006 as well. Hell, if you take out the idea that it helped us get KG, I would have rather had Foye than Telfair (of course Minnesota manages to land both down the road).

Anyone remember Gilbert Arenas? Didn't we supposedly give him a promise that we'd take him in the 2001 draft and pass on him? I'm pretty sure I heard a while back that Troy Murphy was upset that we didn't take him, so I think we may have given him a promise too. In the end we ended up with Kedrick Brown and Joe Forte. That sure worked out well.

A minor one just because I'm really biased and really wanted us to get him: Nicolas Batum in the 2008 draft. We would have had to trade up (not much), but he would have already been an ideal Posey replacement this year and has so much more potential going forward.

tfmiii · Post #18 » by **tfmiii** » Sat Apr 4, 2009 5:42 pm

Arenas hates the Cs because he blames our coach at the time of the draft (O'brien) for talking down his value..... why he still hates the Cs now that O'Brien is long gone - go figure, but i've never read about any promises being issued, quite the opposite

campybatman · Post #19 » by **campybatman** » Sat Apr 4, 2009 6:18 pm

I can't think of a player that Boston has traded that's now a great player from recent memory. But, I'll list a few players that were drafted, traded and eventually turned out to be good to serviceable players in the NBA.

1992 - Jon Barry (never signed with Boston)
1997 - Chauncey Billups (traded while still a rookie; took some years before becoming a better player)
1999 - Andre Miller (pick was traded from Boston to Cleveland as part of the Potapenko trade)
2001 - Joe Johnson (traded while still a rookie)
2002 - Darius Songaila (never played with Boston)
2004 - Al Jefferson and Delonte West (traded to acquire Garnett and Ray Allen in separate trades)
2005 - Ryan Gomes (traded to acquire Garnett)
2007 - Jeff Green (traded to acquire Ray Allen)

BlamePitino · Post #20 » by **BlamePitino** » Sat Apr 4, 2009 6:24 pm

Paul Westphal is a big one you don't hear much about, although they did get Charlie Scott in return.

Aside from '86, '01 was a glaringly tragic draft. I'd say that's the greatest example of letting players get away. Could have had Johnson (and kept him), Troy Murphy and Tony Parker. Can you imagine that core? Pierce, Walker (in his prime still), Parker, Johnson, Murphy, Battie, Eric Williams. That team, not Detroit, wins it all in 2004---against the Shaq/Kobe lakers, no less.

But if you're talking about it from a bigger than basketball standpoint, two obvious names come to mind, but only the latter could have likely been saved. Still, the 90s is a totally different story for the NBA if Jordan/Pippen run into Bias/Lewis every year---and would have made it a pretty perfect decade for this Seinfeld/alternative rock fan.