Orl/Atl/?Trade

The Magic Man · Post #1 » by **The Magic Man** » Mon Apr 6, 2009 11:34 pm

Would you do this trade with the Magic this summer.

Atl Trade:Horford,Law
Orl Trade:Nelson,Gortat

pg:Nelson
sg:Johnson
sf:Williams
pf:Smith
c:Gortat

JoshB914 · Post #2 » by **JoshB914** » Mon Apr 6, 2009 11:40 pm

Where do I sign? I'd do that deal in a second. Honestly I think Orlando is getting the shaft big time in that deal.

NDaATL · Post #3 » by **NDaATL** » Tue Apr 7, 2009 12:27 am

JoshB914 wrote:Where do I sign? I'd do that deal in a second. Honestly I think Orlando is getting the shaft big time in that deal.

I'm not sure I'd do it THAT easily, if at all. We become even more soft up front with no chance of getting a legit big. I'm also not sure that I would regard Nelson as a legit all-star PG considering he only played at this level for half a season.

And, Horford next to Dwight would be absolutely deadly.

ATL DirtyBird · Post #4 » by **ATL DirtyBird** » Tue Apr 7, 2009 2:43 am

^^^Ya if you give them Al they will be amazing for a long time. I wouldnt want to deal with the Magic if they got that. Wed have to be guaranteed to get another better big man, or else wed be screwed.

JoshB914 · Post #5 » by **JoshB914** » Tue Apr 7, 2009 3:04 am

What's so great about Horford? He's a solid role player but I don't see his presence next to Howard making that big of a difference. It certainly wouldn't compensate for the loss of Nelson for Orlando.

Harry10 · Post #6 » by **Harry10** » Tue Apr 7, 2009 6:39 am

JoshB914 wrote:What's so great about Horford? He's a solid role player but I don't see his presence next to Howard making that big of a difference. It certainly wouldn't compensate for the loss of Nelson for Orlando.

........ so you are okay with a front court of Gortat/Smith or Zaza/Smith?!?!?

the trade is clearly a joke. :lol:

JoshB914 · Post #7 » by **JoshB914** » Tue Apr 7, 2009 7:17 am

Obviously we would have to find other means to improve our front court situation, just like Orlando would have to improve their PG situation with the trade. I also think Gortat will have a long career and could help us.

killbuckner · Post #8 » by **killbuckner** » Tue Apr 7, 2009 1:42 pm

It makes sense to trade a player when their perceived value is higher than their actual value. Even very good players are tradable in this situation. With Horford I think it totally comes down to how much you think he will become a force on offense. But even if you are down on Horford I don't make this trade, Nelson just isn't worth as much in trade as he is.

Gutz · Post #9 » by **Gutz** » Tue Apr 7, 2009 3:15 pm

Yeah that is an awful trade for the Hawks. Nelson isn't that good anyways and Gortat has been a nobody until this year. Horford is clearly more valuable than both of those guys plus Law still could develop. Stupid trade here.

Rod700 · Post #10 » by **Rod700** » Tue Apr 7, 2009 3:15 pm

JoshB914 wrote:What's so great about Horford? He's a solid role player but I don't see his presence next to Howard making that big of a difference. It certainly wouldn't compensate for the loss of Nelson for Orlando.

I think Hortford has better long term potential than Josh Smith or Marv. He's only in his second year, and in the second half of the season he is becoming a walking double double with solid defense. He isn't as flashy as some players, but he is effective (more so if he wasn't playing out of position), consistent, and steadily improving.

I appreciate your point of view, but I wouldn't trade Hortford for Nelson.

conleyorbust · Post #11 » by **conleyorbust** » Tue Apr 7, 2009 4:09 pm

Rod700 wrote:
I think Hortford has better long term potential than Josh Smith or Marv. He's only in his second year, and in the second half of the season he is becoming a walking double double with solid defense. He isn't as flashy as some players, but he is effective (more so if he wasn't playing out of position), consistent, and steadily improving.

I appreciate your point of view, but I wouldn't trade Hortford for Nelson.

Horford, his name is Horford. I probably wouldn't do it because of Jameer's injury concerns.

Still though, if we are going to lose Bibby this offseason (not sure if its the case), we'll need a poing guard and Jameer is a good complement to JJ because he can shoot the ball but he's also a very solid penetrator. If you don't view Al as a 5, than you're doing what you'd have to do down the line anyway and moving one of our 4s for a player at a position of need. Gortat is large, defensive center and definitely has more value than Law as of right now.

killbuckner · Post #12 » by **killbuckner** » Tue Apr 7, 2009 4:28 pm

Honestly- I'm not sure that the Hawks will even pick up Acie's 4th year team option. He very well could have more value as an expiring contract.

NDaATL · Post #13 » by **NDaATL** » Tue Apr 7, 2009 4:36 pm

JoshB914 wrote:What's so great about Horford? He's a solid role player but I don't see his presence next to Howard making that big of a difference. It certainly wouldn't compensate for the loss of Nelson for Orlando.

Horford is putting up 11 and 9+ on over 50% shooting in his 2nd year for a home court playoff team, and he's only 22.

Jameer has played at this level for 42 games, it's not like he's a career all-star guy that we know will maintain this production next season.

That said, I would love to have Jameer on this team. He's actually a great fit here because he can shoot AND penetrate. That way we wouldn't be completely reliant on the jumper with Bibby and JJ.

JoshB914 · Post #14 » by **JoshB914** » Tue Apr 7, 2009 5:32 pm

NDaATL wrote:
JoshB914 wrote:What's so great about Horford? He's a solid role player but I don't see his presence next to Howard making that big of a difference. It certainly wouldn't compensate for the loss of Nelson for Orlando.

Horford is putting up 11 and 9+ on over 50% shooting in his 2nd year for a home court playoff team, and he's only 22.

Jameer has played at this level for 42 games, it's not like he's a career all-star guy that we know will maintain this production next season.

That said, I would love to have Jameer on this team. He's actually a great fit here because he can shoot AND penetrate. That way we wouldn't be completely reliant on the jumper with Bibby and JJ.

That's fair, I see what you and others are saying. I just really fell in love with Jameer this season. I see the same things you see in him and think he would be a great fit next to JJ in the backcourt. But maybe I am jumping the gun a bit as it was certainly a breakout year for him and who knows what the future will hold. It will be interesting to see how he comes back from the shoulder injury.

I love Al, but to me is nothing more than a solid role player with fantastic leadership ability.

jerrywest · Post #15 » by **jerrywest** » Tue Apr 7, 2009 5:52 pm

Yep. Gartrude and Smoove will crush Howard+Horf for the next decade+.

NDaATL · Post #16 » by **NDaATL** » Tue Apr 7, 2009 5:57 pm

JoshB914 wrote:That's fair, I see what you and others are saying. I just really fell in love with Jameer this season. I see the same things you see in him and think he would be a great fit next to JJ in the backcourt. But maybe I am jumping the gun a bit as it was certainly a breakout year for him and who knows what the future will hold. It will be interesting to see how he comes back from the shoulder injury.

I love Al, but to me is nothing more than a solid role player with fantastic leadership ability.

Al definitely has a good ways to go offensively, but I think it's just too risky trading within the division on a pretty big deal like that. Horford is only 22 and is already a solid player playing out of position, next to Dwight I just think he'd be much more effective and we'd be fighting them for the next 10 years. If you don't win your division than you can't get higher than a 4th seed, I just think it's too risky honestly.

evildallas · Post #17 » by **evildallas** » Tue Apr 7, 2009 6:38 pm

I'd rather hire a good big man coach before I deal Al Horford in the division. Mainly because I don't think Gortat continues to develop if brought in to start here for the same coaching reason. If you believe that Gortat can become a good starting C then it is a very attractive trade offer for both teams.

This coaching thing is why I'm not willing to write Al off for his lack of sophomore improvement. I think he has the ability and will put forth the effort to become great. As an organization we need to help it happen rather than just hope it will. Al and Josh have different skill sets and for each to become the best they can be they would stand to benefit from some specialized and personalized coaching.

BTW, Gortat is a restricted free agent. If you believe he can be that good, then I say we offer him the full MLE and see if Orlando is willing to go that far into luxury tax to match. Then we could use use Speedy's expiring deal and Acie Law to trade for a PG and have a Smith/Horford/Gortat big man rotation at the 4/5 spot.

killbuckner · Post #18 » by **killbuckner** » Tue Apr 7, 2009 6:55 pm

Honestly I don't think Orlando would have much interest in Horford. They are builing their team to surround Howard with guys who can all shoot from the outside and punish any team that wants to collapse on him from any point. Putting Horford out there at the same time just makes it so much easier to double Howard.

conleyorbust · Post #19 » by **conleyorbust** » Tue Apr 7, 2009 7:28 pm

killbuckner wrote:Honestly I don't think Orlando would have much interest in Horford. They are builing their team to surround Howard with guys who can all shoot from the outside and punish any team that wants to collapse on him from any point. Putting Horford out there at the same time just makes it so much easier to double Howard.

I more or less agree actually. Not that Al and Dwight wouldn't be a fearsome combo on the glass, but Shard has more than held his own in man defense against PFs this season and his offensive +/- is just stunning because he takes and makes so many 3s which in turn has allowed Dwight to tear it up on the inside. Orlando isn't trading their starting point guard for a guy who would be a backup C for them.

NDaATL · Post #20 » by **NDaATL** » Tue Apr 7, 2009 7:35 pm

killbuckner wrote:Honestly I don't think Orlando would have much interest in Horford. They are builing their team to surround Howard with guys who can all shoot from the outside and punish any team that wants to collapse on him from any point. Putting Horford out there at the same time just makes it so much easier to double Howard.

I really like the Magic team and they are very good, but they are extremely reliant on the jumper and that can be a death sentence in the playoffs.