GT: Charlotte @ Chicago 8:30pm

[thruthefire]

I don't blame it all on Felton, I mean in the 4th quarter you need either a big you can dump the ball down to and he can score on the block or pass out of a double team or a player that can create his own shot.

We don't have a Big like that and the only guy we have that can create his own shot is Felton. I mean Wallace can sometimes but he's a slasher and not good enough midrange. Felton is really the only guy we have that can break his man down and get off a decent shot. I guess thats why he takes them and why no one else gets mad that he takes them.

Yeah, that's my main problem with blaming him. When he passes the ball, he get's it right back.

It doesn't hurt that he's been our most productive fouth quarter player.

[W_HAMILTON]

Anyone on the team can create a shot that is missed. I could do that at the NBA level. Anyone can do that. It doesn't matter if you can "create for yourself" if the end result is you rarely score. Wallace/Diaw can create for themselves and others just fine, yet we still look to Felton to score.

If we continue to be a team that lets Felton try to be a hero in the most important moments of a game, we will continue to lose. Through all these years, he has not become a better shooter, and he has not become better in the clutch.

As for him being "our most productive fourth quarter player," I don't know where the hell you get that from. If he's our most productive 4th quarter player, it's no wonder we are something like 9-21 in games decided by 6pts or less (I believe the Bulls announcer said this). If by productive you mean the most points scored, that may be the case, but that's because he takes half the shots. It's a tired story we've seen repeated many times. How many shots does Felton average in the 4th compared to the rest of our players? I'd like to see that stat.

[spectre_]

Didn't want to ignore it, just didn't see the sense in making this a Felts Vs DJ thing but if calling out DJ is the only way to justify Felts D (or lack there of), then so be it.

I know you look at it that way, but it's not "A" vs. "B"...it's "cause and effect". Players couldn't focus only on their cover BECAUSE of the penetration. You're ignoring WHY Felton wasn't focused solely on Gordon, and you're proclaiming Felton a "bad defender" purely because he let Gordon get off perimeter shots.

There are many more facets to defense than just going up with a jump shooter, but because of your seeming need to justify DJ's defense (or really the lack thereof) you want to pick the one thing and paint the entire concept with a broad brush...at least in this instance and where Felton is concerned.

I recorded the game and if I get a chance tonight I'll watch it again to see how Rose got his points and how Gordon got his points. I'm pretty sure I remember Rose scoring over everyone last night - DJ, Felts, Boris and Crash all fell victim to him when he was so hot in the 1st half.

Most of his shots were midrange at the corner of the FT line. He'd pull up and shoot over DJ and he didn't have an answer. He also blew by DJ a couple of times (the Bulls announcers mentioned that too). Others were on him at times because DJ was losing him and guys were having to switch (hence why Felton wasn't locked in on Gordon!).

Yet you blame Felton for not sticking with Gordon solely!

Even the Bulls commentators questioned Felts D on Gordon. They were the ones who used "strolled" and they also pointed out Felton going out to guard Gordon with his arms down not even making an effort to alter the shot.

That happened twice, and both times Felton didn't have a chance of contesting the shot...he was sagged in trying to help on the penetration. I guess he could have waved his arms more, but regardless...THAT makes him an overall "bad defender"? Two plays?

I don't think Felton played great D vs. the Bulls, but it's because this group became a good defending team because of the sum of all the parts. With Raja every player could handle their position defensively; with Raja out we are forced to put in a liability causing everyone to try and cover...thus making us suck overall.

[BigSlam]

Wouldn't you know it, I must have done something wrong with my settings because the OKC and Bulls games didn't record. Instead I have 4 hours of the dish network logo two times!!

I don't know if there has ever been a player in the history of the NBA who has as many appologists for him as Raymond Felton does. There seems to be an excuse for all of his short comings.

He's not a bad shooter - he's just forced to take buzzer beaters all the time.
He's not a bad defender - he just forced to cover for team mates.
He's not a ball hog in the 4th quarters - there is just no one else on the team to do it.
He's not prone to bad turn overs at inopportune times - he's just tired because he logs so many mins.

Rather than all of the excuses, could it just be that there are some things that he's not as good at some things as some of you think he is?

[fatlever]

i think feltons problems are compounded by the fact that

a) he is a warrior, a stand up guy, not afraid to fail and not afraid to take big shots
b) nobody else on this team has shown they are capable or willing to be the scorer in clutch time and on the team, felton is probably the best at creating his own shot..... sadly.

so what we are left with is a player who is absolutely willing to take the last shot on a team where nobody else is better suited. THE PROBLEM, felton is a horribly inefficient offensive player, he cant shoot, cant finish and doesnt look to create for others in clutch.

as long as this team stays basically the same, felton will still be the guy taking over in the 4th. i dont see him changing his mindset and i dont see anyone else, except maybe dj challenging him to start taking those shots. i'd like to see felton play next to a bonafide go-to scorer, but that isnt likely to happen here.

i just tired of it. i've been watching this movie for 4 years. i'm ready for a new ending and i'm willing to accept the possibility that the new ending might be worse.

[spectre_]

Apologist?

I can't believe you're resorting to that but hey, if that's all ya got...

In 4 separate posts I brought up the dribble penetration which caused Felton and other players to sag off their man and you ignored it every single time. Instead of looking at the whole you only want to focus on a single part...and then try to derive from that this "Felton is a bad defender" crap.

I'm not the apologist in this thread. Everyone played pretty weak defense, but you only saw one player's shortcomings while totally ignoring everyone elses'. You even said that you thought Crash had "clocked off" and was ok with that because he's worked so hard all year!

- I don't think I bash Felts with bias at all.

[BigSlam]

Apologist?

You totally are - and it's never been more obvious than right now! It's awesome.

Lets look at how we got here:

I post 8 obsevations that I had watching the game. The only one you comment on? The one about Felts. You rush to his defense. You can't help it. I mean, I don't blame you in a way. He's been the same guy making the same mistakes playing the same way for 4 years now. He needs all the defenders of his game that he can get.

The really telling thing though, like always, is that not only do you rush to his defense, but your justification for his crap D was that it was the fault of someone else - not his fault at all.

Surprise!!

BigSlam wrote:
- I don't think I bash Felts with bias at all.

What's not true about that statement? I priase him when he plays well, I note when he plays poorly. You should try the same, only in reverese? Try actually noticing when he is stinking it up and rather putting it on everyone else, accept that Feltons short comings are a HUGE part of the cause.

You guys make it Raymond Felton Vs the world. It's never Feltons fault. There is always an excuse.

[spectre_]

In 4 separate posts I brought up the dribble penetration which caused Felton and other players to sag off their man and you ignored it every single time. Instead of looking at the whole you only want to focus on a single part...and then try to derive from that this "Felton is a bad defender" crap.

Make that 5.

Lame that you're trying to make this about me vs actually addressing the point, and you know perfectly well that the reason I rebutted that line was because we've had this same debate off and on for the last few weeks.

I expected more, but I guess I'm not surprised.